Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: Errrr
I am sharing this in the hope it either will give me clues or it will help others appreciate how things can go pear-shaped in a previously settled home.
My WSS (7 yrs old and entire) has undergone a personality change. Fred has always been a 'needy' soul after a bad start to life. He has been so much better though for the last couple of years and he and Brice (4.5 entire) have been a really devoted pair. Chase gets on well with both and Piper has also slotted in easily.
Over the last few months Freddy has 'changed', he is not the cocky dog he has been and he tends to hide himself away, he is staying close if and when we are out and about and without being able to put my finger on anything he is 'out of sorts'.
I had tried using flower remedies with no obvious results and I have factored in losing Mugi and neutering Piper.
Things came to a head just over a week ago when Brice attacked Freddy with no trigger that I could identify. Chase was loose in the same room and boy was I proud of him as he didn't join in. Then showing and SPT where I had to separate, Brice had been due to kennel with Fred and Piper but he was lame and I was reluctant to have them unattended in a high stress environment.
Monday evening was fraught as the boys came back together, Brice on high alert and Freddy hiding. Tuesday Freddy tried to bite me , Wed am Freddy and Chase were playing and erupted into a scrap - if I hadn't seen the fight between Brice and Fred I would have just put it down to OTT play between two males but it was the first scrap between those two - it was easy to call a time out with them.
Today Fred has had his second vet visit since the fight for fasting bloods, he also goes back on Monday to see the vet who specialises in behaviour.
Tis awful having a dog I have owned for 6 yrs who is so scared and unhappy.
If anyone has any thoughts about what could have changed him from a more physical aspect please share your thoughts. He has been a hugely complex dog from a behaviour point of view and has made me learn more than I ever thought I would about how dogs think.
I am very afraid that if I don't find a solution I may have to make a very hard decision.........and for those that remember Fred has a pre-glaucoma condition - his eye pressures were checked last Friday and are ok. _________________ Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.
Oh Sue, sorry to hear about this Could it possibly be Chase reaching sexual maturity that is causing the friction between them Rudi and Copper were fine until a few months back but then all hell broke loose Sorry I don't have an answer or a solution as we are still working on it too _________________ Lin, owned by Rudi and Copper the Brittanys & Zac the Springer.
Is it possible that Fred's eye condition is more advanced than at first thought and that his sight is impaired? That might make him feel vulnerable and nervy. The others may have sensed that too.
I have to say I wouldn't have that number of males together anyway. You are very brave. I had enough trouble with two, and am glad I only have one now. it's bad enough with two bitches although I've finally got them to understand that I am alpha bitch not either of them. I keep the hose pipe attached just in case!
Sorry, I'm no more help than Lyn. _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
Sad to hear you are going through all that. Is the vet specialized in behaviour really a good one? I would seek a specialized one if in doubt and anyway as a second opinion before deciding anything serious.
I would also sit down and write down everything you have observed over the last few months, starting with the first signal you saw. I would then discuss it with a good behaviourist, I am sure they will be able to see things that you had not thought about.
Other than the dog having developped a condition over the last few months, I am convinced that the right person should be able to help you and there is an explanation for all this.
In the meantime, be very careful with Freddy, do not let him around kids or strangers. The fact he tried to bite you without much warning is very worrying in my view. Just be very careful there.
Sue, just had a brilliant thought! Phone Jesse Rush - Pat and Alan's daughter. She's a qualified behaviourist and is extremely well thought of. _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
I don't think Chase is anything to do with this fight. He will actually be a " mature" male at 3 years. I am pleased to see him well balanced and good with other males around him as I saw him on Sunday. No agressive body language or anything. Well behaved, not noisy, not messing off in large fields of wheat etc...Checking back and looking at his Mum.
I think like Anne that Freddy may be having problems with his eyes for having a go at his owner for no reason.
Dogs sense when another is ill and will think nothing of " finishing" them off. When you have a kennel fight or a dog is distress- however barbaric it may sound- they will kill it.
You don't cure aggression, you simply manage it.
As for introducing another male in a pack, the pecking order will shift. The insecure being the ones who will challenge for a higher place...
You need to be experienced to manage older males and introducing such in your pack. I would rather a puppy any day who will fit in much more easily.
Thanks guys ................ I am almost certain there is something physically wrong with Fred, through his life he has seen some very respected behaviourists and I still train regularly with some well respected canine behaviourists, in fact Brice is off to Surrey tomorrow for his rehab session.
I have lived through a number of problems with my guys over the years, when I first got Freddy he was screwed up, Brice has been attacked and became fear aggressive and hence I have worked hard to keep Chase balanced. I am very lucky to number some lecturers in behaviour affiliated to respected colleges as friends and tapping into people who know my gang is not hard for me. What I am struggling with is the knowledge Freddy may be ill and we can't find a focus.
As for keeping a household of males - that is not so hard if you mix breeds and don't add in the girl equation . Both Brice and Chase said hello to Toscane through the kennel at the weekend and both happily came away from her - both young males but both know when I say leave I mean it!
Today I have been in Stafford for a good length of time and all dogs were home (Chase crated as that gives everyone time-out) and all seems to have been calm. Brice is alseep on the armchair, Chase on the rug, Fred upstairs on the landing and Piper on the patio ........... long may peace reign. _________________ Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.
I'll go with that Sue....if you know what you are doing and are aware of the possible problems, then putting males together is no worse than having females together. Particularly if none of them have been used at stud so there are no issues in that respect.
Bitches can be little devils, and sometimes a lot worse than males. If Caesar Milan can keep all those male [albeit neutered] pit bull terriers together then there is no reason why anyone else cannot cope. _________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
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, Wed am Freddy and Chase were playing and erupted into a scrap - if I hadn't seen the fight between Brice and Fred I would have just put it down to OTT play between two males but it was the first scrap between those two - it was easy to call a time out with them.
Could it possibly be Chase reaching sexual maturity that is causing the friction between them 
Rudi and Copper were fine until a few months back but then all hell broke loose 
. Both Brice and Chase said hello to Toscane through the kennel at the weekend and both happily came away from her - both young males but both know when I say leave I mean it!
