The Brittany Forum

rickyc1 · Bretonnier Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 5

I have a 4 month old male Brittany. I've work with him daily on retrieving. I throw a dummy he fetches and as we arrives he starts to growl. I let him hold onto the dummy for a moment and command to Leave IT. As I grab the dummy he starts to growls stronger.

I grab the dummy and turn it into his mouth so he releases.

Should I worry about him growling?

Should I try and fix that now, if so how do I do that? What does it mean when he growls?

Thanks in advance for any answers or comments.

doganjo · Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject:

Better folk than me will reply to you, but he thinks the dummy is his and is being possessive about it. So for every time you let him retrieve it you must pick it up yourself. And I would stop the retrieving for a few days till he maybe forgets for a bit. So after about a week, throw dummy, make him wait. Go pick it yourself. Do this again 2 or 3 times. Then throw it and tell him to retrieve it with what ever command you use, on the lead might be good so you have control - a long one might help.. DON'T grab the dummy when he comes back. Offer a treat (or give the 'dead' command if you don't use treats, then take the dummy gently. Only give him the one retrieve till next training day, and I wouldn't do it every day either - every 2/3 days should be enough. Just what I'd do - as I say others may differ.
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Annie

Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away

rickyc1 · Bretonnier Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 5

thanks for the idea. Does anyone else have a theory on why the growling behvior?

lagopuslagopus · Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:

Like Annie said he is being possesive and doesn't want you to have it. The more you try to grab it the harder he will hold on to it. Can you find something he likes more than a dummy that you can exchange it for gently?
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karen

Mugi · Bretonnier Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1304

I would agree with Annie that he is probably growling as he is excited and finds the dummy really rewarding and he is only a baby.

I have a very possessive ESS and the best way I have managed it with him is having a bucket of tennis balls and patiently swapping - I throw a ball, he comes back but then stands growling at me with the ball in his mouth, I won't try to take the ball off him but wait for him to drop it either into my outstretched hand or the floor when I immediately throw another ball. If he is very determined to hold I will just lob tennis balls out while he tries to decide how many he can get in his gob. By the end of a half hour session he will be swapping nicely and I am finding each session he is less 'worried' about his prize and more keen to swap.

With my Brittanys I have had different issues. Mugi would only retrieve game as anything else was boring ..... but he was a late starter to work and that never mattered. Chase I sadly poisoned something in his retrieve and I am still working on getting him back on dummies - game is fine, he will both mark well and hunt it out although he doesn't get enough practice to understand directional handling yet, so I am determined to get him back on dummies but slowly slowly catchy monkey and mostly we are playing games at the moment.

As a pup Chase retrieved well but although he didn't growl he did parade dummies as a trophy. The only thing I would say is ............ he is a baby still, don't pressure him too much and at this age I would be looking more at keeping retrieve fun and pressure free so don't try formal retrieves but do swapping games and the like so he learns not to be possessive and that giving up his prize gives you both pleasure cos he gets to do it all again. Stop while he still wants more and enjoy the fact you have a brittany who wants to retrieve.
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Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.

Never forgetting Mugi and Freddy

rickyc1 · Bretonnier Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 5

Thanks all for your ideas. I will try the swapping dummy with another toy. I have tried treats but he prefers the dummy to a hot-dogs treat Crying or Very sad

Will keep it fun for another month but would like to start doing some force fetching soon

rickyc1 · Bretonnier Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 5

I think I forgot to mention is that my daughter like to play tug of war with our puppy and initially thought that he was assuming I wanted to play.

Is this a negative to playing tug of war with him?

Mugi · Bretonnier Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1304

Tuggy - well a lot of people will say it is a bad idea. With a young pup you need to be careful anyway of their teeth and ensure that the pup is not pulling too hard or being 'swung' by the human if the game gets very excited.

I did play Tuggy with Chase - but as a way of redirecting him when he was getting too mouthy and also as a way of teaching self control so he took the tuggy on command and he let it go on command.

My dogs often play tuggy together and they do enjoy it, it hasn't made Chase hard mouthed but I rarely play it with them now as it is a game they play on demand in their pack so they don't need me. Having a hound with a brittany and an ESS it is nice for them to have some games that they enjoy together as mostly they do their own thing.

As for force fetch, it is not something I totally understand so I can't really comment other than saying that most Brittanys are quite sensitive souls despite their tough guy exteriors. I was watching a top breeder/trainer in France a week or so back working with some young pups of a similar age to yours. All his work on retrieve (in and out of water) was done through play and there was no coercion, he has such a rapport with the dogs he was able to get them working well just because they were desperate to earn his praise which was freely given.

Most Brittanys are quite desperate to please but can easily be crushed - then they can become quite stubborn. To get the best from them you need to remember that in some ways they are slow maturers and while they are bright and quick learners you can easily spoil them by doing too much too quick.
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Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.

Never forgetting Mugi and Freddy

johnhod · Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject:

Why do you want to do force fetching with a dog that is prepared to retrieve anyway, albeit with a problem?

I'd go along with Annie's suggestion of stopping the retrieving for a while. when you reintroduce it if the growling continues you could try refusing to take the retrieve. Walk away as soon as the dog starts to growl, but not too quickly. As soon as the growling stops gently take the retrieve, but if the growling starts again be prepared to move away again.

While retrieving, as other training, should be fun it needs to be done to your rules and not those of the dog.

I'd discourage the tug of war games at the moment, until this problem has been sorted out, as the dog could be confusing his games with your daughter and the job you are trying to train him to do.
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My goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog already thinks I am.

rickyc1 · Bretonnier Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 5

I had a bit of a revolution yesterday.

Took the dog into the field for some running time. For what ever reason he was all over the place yesterday. After running session I positioned him to do some retrieve work and wanted to try the approach of swapping out the dummy to see if he would release it without growling. Ran through a couple retrieves and had him growling and not able to get him to calm down so to get his attention. On a retrieve he came back growling and jumping around.. I commend him to sit, but he wasn’t having that either. So I positioned him in a sit and swapped him it the butt to calm him down. And it worked, he calmed down and stopped growling on subsequent retrieves. I will try and work him tomorrow and see if it was just a hierarchy issue.