Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: Pointer versas Brittany??
My daughter has decided to go out with a Falconer
Tonight the discussion was lively on whether one should be " proper" and work an English Pointer rather than an HPR. The GSP in his case, being called a " disapointer"
This is actually quite a soft dog -with a tail- God forbids working anything else than an Irish Red and White or a Pointer in conjunction with a Peregrine Flacon.
I called him a snob ...Now, maybe Des could enlighten me to what is superior about the Pointer and why can't a Brittany do the job as well????????????Sorry if I show my ignorance. My daughter is now hiding in embarrassment
Des raised teh question of running a POinter that ertrieves in an HPR trial becasue he knew of HPR owners who rejected the idea of an HPR becoming an FT CH by winning in POinter and Setter trials - no retrieveing or water work is done.
I quoted the KC regs below:
J regs for Pointers & Setters
8. Credit points
Systematically quartering with stamina pace and style.
Hunting with drive and purpose.
Style on point and production. Natural backing.
Dropping to wing. Quiet handling.
and for HPRs
5. Credit Points
Systematically quartering with stamina pace and style.
Hunting with drive and purpose. Good marking.
Style on point and production. Quiet handling.
Dropping to wing. Good water work.
Speed and efficiency in retrieving.
The main differences I can see are that HPRs are run singly as opposed to pairs in setters and pointers, HPRs are required to retrieve and also to do so in water. Setters and pointers are not required to do this. So the standards are very different.
There are a number of breeds that can be trained or sometimes show natural traits to do similar jobs to our HPRs but they are classed differently by our KC and that is what we should abide by. IMHO _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
Not what I meant Why is a Pointer better to work with a Peregrine considering we are in East Anglia and not the moors of Scotland?
Why cannot a Brittany do the job too??? Hope to hear from Falconers?...
Bird being " served" being paramount...I look forward to seeing the GSP with the hawk next!
Ah, I see, sorry. It's mostly GSPs that are used by falconers up here in Scotland. I know one using a pointer but he has a Brittany too. Moors are pretty heavy going for our guys rittle regs lol _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
Certain dogs are/were bred specifically to do certain jobs. This does not mean that other dogs connot do this type of work to an acceptable standard but the specialist is bound to have an advantage if the work is very specalised. To my mind the pointer was developed to be a gundog but somewhere along the line it was found to be very efficent at working with falcons/hawks. In the mind of many falconers the pinnacle of their sport is to fly a peregrine at grouse over a pointer. Anything else is therefore thought to be less than the ideal.
The unfortunate thing about human nature is that people tend to make decisions about all members of a particular breed based on their experience of one member of that breed. For years the less commom continental breeds were mainly in the hands of "fanciers" and sometimes fanatics might be nearer the truth. I could therefore fully understand if a falconer who had had a bad day with a Brit. thought they were poor and obviously somebody who'd had a bad day with a pointer would quite possibly think they were crap. All the time of course it would be more to do with the handler than the dog.
I would feel that everything else being equal a good pointer would have an easier time of it on a moor than a good Brittany mainly because of the size. If the falconer wasn't just poking fun then I would reserve judgment of somebody denegrating a particular dog.....without first seeing it in action!
I am having great fun with this Falconer!!! Beside the fact I can wind him up very well He cringes when I speak of Lanner Falcons and I remember from the days we had " Falconers training days" the rivalry between " Short Wing" and " Long wing". Goshawks are also frowned upon!!
This Pointer" brigade" fly their birds on lowland ie Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, basically large fields. Even ours are not big enough and French partridge is not good enough compared to the English!! Oh dear...
Now, these Pointers no doubt are brilliant, but how about their handlers??
My point: why can't a Brittany do the job as well as not in Scotland?? Des? Mind you, I am not worried about that one bit
You find some Brittanys which are not midgets and also cover the ground well and hold point very well too. Long enough for a Peregrine to gain height as I recall with Ray Butler's bitch a few years back. 20mns point and solid.
This young man has a GSP, I get the impression he worries about serving his bird more than maybe having the dog on the " button"?
As my friend is part of the N&S HPR club and owns - and has trialed 2 GSP's - plus working on a pup- I will see if he wants to go out with him to see how to work well with an HPR. Nothing like education
Patricia, do you think Des is in Scotland as you refer to it - he is in Ireland! Mind you perhaps he has worked his dogs on the Scottish moors. My Brittanys sometimes have a difficult job getting in and out of deep rutted heather clumps on the moors - as do I so I just don't tackle the moors any more. Having said that Ceilidh once brought back a dog hare - that was on the Buck, a grouse moor near Craigs Castle(where we ahd a field trial last year). She was pretty exhausted though, and all cut underneath and her feathers torn off down her legs. John took her up there a lot so I never got the chance to show her much. _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
No, I did not say Des was in Scotland...I am only saying that some Falconers are using Pointers in East Anglia and why? why is a Brittany not as suitable? Or is it because it is an ego thing?
I would expecxt a Brittany to retrieve hares, we have lots here as we shoot them too along with pheasant and partridge...
No, I did not say Des was in Scotland...I am only saying that some Falconers are using Pointers in East Anglia and why? why is a Brittany not as suitable? Or is it because it is an ego thing?
I would expecxt a Brittany to retrieve hares, we have lots here as we shoot them too along with pheasant and partridge...
I didn't mean that they couldn't retrieve hares - of course they can,. I wasn't sure what you meant but I think you are saying that a Brittany can work fine on flat areas like Anglia whereas a pointer would be fine on our grouse moors. I think you could be right. And that this falconer (and perhaps others) has a big dog and looks down on our little dogs because he has a big ego? Is that right? _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
This Falconer has not a big ego -he is in fact really nice -but I feel some of the others may look down at a small HPR? What is it so brilliant about a Pointer but not our fabulous Brittany????
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
...Now, maybe Des could enlighten me to what is superior about the Pointer and why can't a Brittany do the job as well????????????Sorry if I show my ignorance. My daughter is now hiding in embarrassment 
