Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:48 am Post subject: Santi's excellent progress
Santi posted on the Working HPR forum about his Brittany's progress from hardly retrieving at all to this - some of you don't go on that forum so here's the video - hope Santi will post more on here as to how he did it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az_xd6MFhuo _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
So do I. As you know, I know nothing about working or trialing dogs, but would be interested to know how a reluctant retriever was brought to this state, and how long it took. _________________ If a job's worth doing, it's worth paying somebody else to do it properly
Well, I think I had my good share of luck here. I got a lot of help from people around, including Guy in this Forum and some others on the HPR one.
I started training the retrieve back in September, frankly when I discovered there were techniques outside force training which I do not like. My dog was four then.
I started with the clicker retrieve. That took maybe a month and a half.
Then I started very slowly. Retrieve indoors. Then in a "parking lot" type of scenario. Then in the park with no game. I have also done quite a bit of three handed casting and T-drills. I recommend this book with a good program to follow: Teaching Retrievers to Handle by DL Walters.
One thing that I believe has been quite key was introducing treats. Many people do not like them, but for me it was important because I wanted to practice a lot, without boring the dog.
Another useful concept was realizing that my Brittany likes retrieving, but only if there is no hunting alternative. So by working on obedience, he has started to comply even when there are temptations. I think it all comes down to a good stop whistle, a really good one (which I do not have yet by the way). That means the dog understands he has to obey always, no matter what.
And then patience. A lot. Only a month ago I really lost my temper when he was refusing to get into the water. Then barely a week later, we were at a little pond. I throw this frozen teal in, there is a labrador that tries to "steal it" and there he goes.
Another good tip I have found is to use frozen game, your dog's favourite, for water retrieving (in my case it is teal) and for blinds. Then you transition from that back to dummies.
Not quite there yet by any means, but as long as I see progress I can be patient.
Video lets you see so much - and relive the occasion. _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
I am very heartened to read that your dog was four when you started this regime, Santi. Allez is 3 and I thought I was fighting a losing battle. I now have been given some hope. I took Allez to our local country park tonight - at teatime, when no-one else would be about hoping to walk him into the loch but my boots are just a little too short. Wish I could get waders lol.
Thank you for that great video. _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
Funny how the different individual dogs show preferences...mine do not like birds which have been frozen...saying that, I do not always know how 'old" they were when put in the freezer, although I have the assurances of the supplier that they are fresh...
what a lovely video...more please!!! _________________ "...amitie, respect mutuel et amour..."
Santiago - this reply is based on what i see in the video and may not truly reflect where your dog is in regards to training. It is with the caveat that you the handler know the dog better than I and what works with you two is what is best to do.
Several things struck me.
1. the dog is very keen to get the retrieve - you had to verbally stop it at the beginning.
2. If i read the wind right (from the flight of the bird at the beginning) your dog took a slightly downwind cast to the dummy - which I think must be good as it increases the chance of finding it. That was a good distance and once in the water the dummy would have been invisible to the dog with its eyes so close to the water.
3. It picked the dummy up by the end. I think this was just the way it happened upon it.
4. The dummy was put down at the waterside. This was a good move on the dogs part as it allowed it to take a better hold; but to shake....hmm. Whilst I accept this may not have happened with a real bird, the dog is obviously thinking about itself above getting the retrieve back to you. Two things here- one is a 'hold' command is useful and secondly you can increase the speed of the land return by running backwards - so the dog wants to catch up with you more than have a shake.
5. the dummy was put down for a second time - this was naughty
6. the dummy was dropped at the end - this may have been because of your body language and the camera as much as the dog just spitting it.
You can train the 'hold' at home. Just have the dog sit and hold the dummy for longer and longer periods. Use the 'hold' word - with a caressing tone of voice even reinforced with 'good hold'. Stroking the dog calmly at the same time if necessary under the chin and over the head. under the chin helps to keep the head up. Some trainers also tap under the jaw lightly - I mean lightly, to encourage the dog to keep its mouth shut.
As the dog comes to wards you in the field you can tell it to 'hold'; give it the release the bird - some use 'dead' some 'give' some 'out' and then tell the dog to 'shake'. It is very useful to get the 'shake' onto a command - it allows you to step back before you give it so you are not covered and by not giving it it reduces the behaviour at wrong time.
For those of you who are having trouble getting the dog into water. Think about what might be stopping it.
To start with find a slowly shelving beach with a firm bottom, free of large stones and bits of branch. No sudden change of depth - so the dog doesn't suddenly loose its foothold.
Always go back to the same bit of beach - so the dog knows what the ground conditions are.
Take your wellies or take your shoes and socks off and roll up your trousers. Get in with the dog and prove to the dog it is all OK by splashing about and having fun yourself, have fun with the dog.
If you are going to do retrieves - tie a piece of line to the dummy in case you throw it to far, or have another dog available to collect it. A bit of line also allows you to give the dummy some 'life' by giving it little tugs.
As Santiago pointed out dogs learn by watching each other - so another dog that likes water helps. Start with the dog picking the dummy out of the water but with all its paws on dry land. Use a smaller than usual dummy - so the dog doesn't have to open its mouth a lot to pick it up.
Some dogs just need to get past the 'I can't do that, I haven't tried it' stage and a long line from bank to bank can help you guide the dog towards you rather than returning to the first bank. They just need to realise that they can. Lots and lots of praise.
Make sure the water is not too cold and have the means of drying the dog off, some will shake dry in minutes and some stay damp for a long time.
Having said that - the first dog I ever taught to swim was my ex mother in laws - I was one side of a drainage canal, my wife the other and the dog was 'encouraged' in with a push from behind. We got home to find out she did not want the dog to teach the dog to swim - not wanting to have to transport a wet dog in her car. _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
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