| Archive for The Brittany Forum For all friends of the versatile Brittany |
| johnhod |
It may come as a surprise but working dogs are bred from. It's not the sole preserve of show dogs. | ||
| The Plum |
As a person with only the slightest interest in showing one of my pet irrtations is the increasingly common thing where some person with puppies to sell takes the buyers money but keeps control on that pups breeding possiblities in the future. As someone who does not show it is perfectly possible that my puppy that I've just spent 4 -500 quid for would never gain breeding rights. To have the average show person tell me that my bitch is or is not good enough as a WORKER to breed from , is I think, downright insulting ! It is very likely that my knowledge of what is a really good WORKING dog will considerably exceed theirs ! Yet that same dog may not be capable of doing well in a showring. My ideas on good conformation and most show peoples ideas on the subject sometimes only fit where they touch ! Perfectly good WORKING dogs could be denied breeding rights. Not everyone wishes to join a club - I only join clubs to run in their trials, other than that the club scene is not for me. That is the way many, perhaps most, shooting blokes feel . They see no reason to belong to a club they feel little connection with and they certainly see no reason not to breed from a dog they have already paid for! I am well aware that this will not be a popular viewpoint on this forum but it is how I - and many others , feel on the subject. The Plum. |
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| highclare |
May I put my 2 penith in.
I am a member of 9 breed clubs and have and are currently breeding 2 breeds so of course I need to know each clubs code of conduct. May I ask isn't the code of conduct a just a guide to good breeding, showins ect...with in a club? Yes I do agree that health is a very important part of any breed but at the end of the day like it or not it is up to the indvidual to make there own decisions on what they do with there dogs even if they are a member of a club, let face it if a club makes life to difficult for the membership then people will not be in the club. I do feel that people get to involved in other peoples business to easily. I think it is good to discuss on a forum as it opens things up for one and all to have there say. Everone has there own iders on how they care for there own dogs in all matters like breeding, health, showing, working ect, so giving the membership there experiences though a forum is great, but not to personal. On a lighter note can anyone tell me how you put the little faces on the end of a message!!! I know I am a plonker Ha Ha. Gill and The Mabeleen |
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| The Plum |
Hi Gill, as a total plonker of a computer user myself I commiserate with you not knowing how to make the wee funny faces appear! It took me nearly 3 months to learn to do that last year!
I'll try to tell you how to do it - the blind leading the blind ! 
Move your little arrow thingy from wherever it is to the funny face of your choice. Put the arrow on the face then click once. The face will NOT appear at the end of your last printed word , letters or symbols will. The laughing face on the right hand side of the wee faces will appear behind your last printed word as lol for example. Take the arrow off the face or you may get more faces than you want ! If you choose to see Preview or Submit the letters or symbols will reappear in funny face form. It took me 3 months to learn that 
The Plum |
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| Lin Dyke |
Why only screen hip scores  Epilepsy was/is an issue in the breed. Not so easy to check for that. There are, surely, several health/conformation issues present in every breed that most responsible breeders/owners would be aware of, either working/show or pet and make informed decisions as to whether or not to breed from their dog. I know not every owner may be well informed but, hopefully, any intentional breeding would be a considered and well intended one for the breed as a whole.
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| Annie as admin |
It never got to epidemic level and it seems to have been reduced to teh extent that you hardly ever hear of it now. A few breeders had it in the early days and completely changed their breeding stock. I don't think they can test for it till they are two years, which is often when it starts Annie |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
Neither did I say anything about pet/working dogs till someone else mentioned them  And....I think that i am entitled to my own opinion whether or not anyone agrees with it.
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| guy |
The answer is easy
Adopt the French point system of recommended sires /dams. |
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| Patricia |
Great idea Guy... 
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| guy |
here is the scheme
http://www.epagneul-breton.ws/en/ebreton/rating/rating.php |
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| johnhod |
That would be great, as to reach the higher levels there has to be proven working ability. Whoops, that would be the stumbling block to it being introduced here. | ||
| guy |
OK the UK dogs are not likely to get to 6/6 or even 4/6 but then there are not many French ones up there either.
How about:- 1point 3rd or above in a class at a Champ show (ie qualified for Crufts) 2 points. 1st in class at a champ show, TAN 3points. CC or 2 RCC, SGWC or GWC , hip score 35 or below 4 points 3 CC, placed at FT, hip score 24 or below 5 points as 4 points plus 2 first generation progeny 3/6 or above by different non sib matings 6 points as 5 points plus at least 20 points on the pedigree within the previous 5 generations |
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| Patricia |
4/6 but then there are not many French ones up there either.
True Guy. We call them for the best: an "8" point litter...Not many but I have found one. tailess. both parents are 4/6 as both are worked. I hope if everything is OK he will be coming over to the UK. I had found a really nice puppy bitch 3 years ago...but she was too small when adult, so I left her behind. Now I have a replacement. Bill will laugh at me probably but I need them to be of size to carry the many hares we have here! 
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| The Plum |
If I am the Bill you mean Patricia then I would not laugh at all. I think a Brittany should be able to carry a hare or a goose. My original Brit often did and I see no reason why the other Brits should not.
A good sized dog will find the carrying a bit easier but that is not the whole story. Work bred cockers that are smaller than Brittanies will bring back both hares and geese. Good luck in your quest for a bigger Brit though ! 
The Plum. |
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| yarak |
Excellent news Patricia lets hope everything goes OK with him and he arrives in the UK fit and healthy, tailless or not is immaterial , but a bonus none the less.
He will be an excellent asset to a much needed gene pool and with his working lines on both side of his pedigree, can only bode well for the future of the breed in the UK It will also please the plum I think to have such a dog with those working lines coming in to the gene pool
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| Patricia |
Yes, Joanne, but remember my endorsements! 
I am doing it for me as it is the pedigree I am looking for( on both sides) Why I say everything going OK- because it is a puppy and you don't know how things can turn out. Last time the bitch was 45 to 46 cms , too small for me to work or breed. Though the Brittany has a big heart, there is a confirmation test for a reason. And I don't do mini Brittanys
So, also hips to check etc... Patrick does not do tailless, so I asked him about my choice as I value his opinion. Yes Bill, it is you!  I have found a bigger one, I need those legs to bounce in sugar beet!
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| johnhod |
I know this won't apply to you Patricia, as your dogs will be worked, but there is little point in breeding from working stock if the offspring are just to be used in the ring and are not to be allowed to develop their natural abilities | ||
| Patricia |
Agreed John...Can you elaborate for me please? | ||
| Mugi |
But who is to say what a dog will do???????????
I got Mugi who has been 'nothing' but a pet for 10 yrs. Yes I was open and willing to try to train with him but if that 'wasted' natural ability hadn't been there I would not be where I am now. I didn't get Mugi planning to work him, he has changed me. I don't think he has been an unhappy or unfulfilled pet either, he obviously was well trained as a pet, well cared for and loved or he would not be the dog he is today. He would have died happy if he hadn't had the opportunity to work - but now I hope he will die happy and fulfilled (and hopefully he won't die for a good while yet!!). I freely admit that at the time I approached Patricia for a pup it was with a view to showing after seeing Toscane and Baileys at the Club Champ Show. Mugi hadn't at that time got me hooked on the working side so Patricia sold me Chase as a Show Pup who would have had an active live but not initially planned as a working dog, I am so pleased we are able to do more (esp as he is not easy in a show ring ) but he is more than a working dog/show dog/pet dog - he is expected to do it all and fit in with my other males - he does it so much more easily than I might have feared seeing he is a livewire.
So I have been changed by a great breed rather than chosing a breed for inherent working ability. My previous HPR was (closely) descended from a FT Champ but was plagued by ill-health, she was a great pet dog who could do more than some but no way was the raw desire to hunt, point (she did love retrieving so there you go ) there as it is with the Brittany.
I doubt I am unique in finding out what I have got after I have got it, breeding these dogs is something I feel passionately about - they should be kept as dual purpose as possible but that then means the breeder has a real job to find good homes in our increasingly throw away society. If this means the dogs are less easy to come by then in a world where there are way too many dogs needing second,third or more homes I for one don't think that is a wholly bad thing. Does my waffle make sense?
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| johnhod |
Just keen that we should be doing as much as possible to ensure that good working dogs are recognised as valuable in breeding programmes, but that their ability is used and not wasted/watered down by not utilising the skills they possess. As a club we should be doing all that we can to encourage the working side of the breed. This is one of the reasons for suggesting having regional meetings, as the distances involved are often difficult to justify for a training session. | ||
| yarak |
Don't be fooled by everyone in the show ring John we are all not just a pretty face that's the dogs I mean
I like nothing more than to get out their with my dogs and in season with the birds and find game and see the dogs work and use their natural ability. We are very lucky were we are as we have hares, Partridge, pheasant, grouse the odd woodcock, snipe, even the odd deer. An Even better buzz is training the pups and seeing them develop. Would love to go further with thr trialling but dont really have the bottle or the time to get into it that serious. If I just wanted a show dog I would have a POM less hassle
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| johnhod |
It would be wrong of me to suggest that trialling is the only measure of a dog's ability to work (I haven't got into it myself yet) and I appreciate that different people maintain the working ability in different ways whether it is falconry, hawking, rough shooting, wildfowling or whatever. I'm simply suggesting that working ability has to be maintained with the breeding programmme or we are in danger of ending up with dogs that can't retrieve, don't know how to use their nose and don't want to hunt. Hunting will probably be the last thing to go in the Brittany but if show champion is the sole accolade aimed for I'm afraid this will happen. | ||
| Dave A |
Hi john
I agree, A working gun dog breed should work and we are fortunate that as a small ( in numbers ) breed most litters when sold are probably sold to both show and working homes, some doing both some doing just one.I have 3 working bitches, I have never breed a litter as i haven't felt it necassary due to the good lines available and the fact that they have been related to my own stock . As regards how to prove the dogs working ability without being directly involved with field trials or test's , we would have to us the working certificate as a basis, possibly having club run assessment days ? i don't know. But as more and more Britt owners start to become interested in exploring the working ability of there dogs we as a club may need to explore different stages / levels And hold these assessment days around the country . Possibly linking up with the regional idea of training groups. i Know it would take a good bit of support but would be worth it if the interest was there Dave A |
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