| Archive for The Brittany Forum For all friends of the versatile Brittany |
| Mugi |
ChaseI thought, as Chase is now going to start more 'formal' training I should give him his own thread (perhaps Admin could edit Mugi's title so he has his own thread - pretty please??).So today has been baby steps, I am conscious of the fact that for the last two weeks pretty much all my time has been spent on Mugi or work so I expected and got a pup on speed!!!! We did have some good work though. As he erupted from the car he managed 200m loose lead walking to the point I would release him, I asked for a sit which he maintained as his lead was removed and continued for nearly a minute while I walked around him. I released him and pocket rocket was off  . He had only been running for less than a minute when a Rough Collie got between him and me  , I thought I had scanned the horizon but this dog appeared from nowhere. I was well impressed as Chase gave it barely a glance and rejoined Mugi and I.
We were doing recall practice which remains good 90% of the time but the purpose of this walk/session was to blow off cobwebs so mostly he was running. Boy can he run, he covers so much ground and is very fast although he also is pretty careful checking out smells etc as he travels. Then the downside, he met a Patterdale and a Dalmation, he was not coming back whatever I did and the woman with them was happy for her dogs to play. I wasn't really but to be honest, apart from ignoring me he was playing very well and the attraction of two young dogs that were up for a romp was too great. I chatted to the woman for a few mins and then walked away, Chase did not come to the first whistle so I went back to collect him. Thankfully the woman stood still and Chase was caught up easily. I walked him away on a loose lead again and once we were far enough apart he was asked to sit again. This time we did a more formal sit stay which he maintained for well over a minute even with Mugi running around. We carried on with our run and he was getting further and further away each time he released BUT HE CAME BACK to the first whistle each time. The final recall he knew he would be caught up as I had his lead in my hand, even so he came in and sat well, we loose lead walked back to the car about 400m. Tomorrow I have a hospital appointment so he will be a tad bored, I hope to be home in time to get another good run before dark then Wednesday he will have a more structured exercise plan. |
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| Annie as admin |
Admin has looked everywhere and can't find out how to  
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| guy |
you have to edit the title line of the first post. Sue you can do it as well - any one can do their own. | ||
| Mugi |
A really good week of basics!!
The other day I loose lead walked him down towards the Avon and then put him in a sit at the top of some steps down to the fishing stations, this meant he was left at the top with dirt roads leading in three directions, a field of cattle behind him only loosely fenced in and acres of orchard. Although he is doing well in his sit/stay this is the first time I have totally removed myself from his eyeline and I was dropping down 10' or so below him. He was craning himself round having a good look at his surroundings and nearly fell over BUT HE STAYED SAT till I called him down and he was immediately released to play. That whole hour or so of training / walking saw him having great fun, not putting a paw wrong when asked to do stuff and I was pleased. Today we had another good few experiences. I lead walked him with Mugi and my friend with her ESS to the fields (about 10 mins of road walking). To be fair to Mugi I don't usually do this as sometimes Chase decides he needs to spice up the walk by landing on his captive companion  , today he was quite angelic and even kept the lead slack 90% of the time.
When we got to the field he was the last dog to be released and even so he managed a minute sit, lead off before he got to play. Highlights today were the recall with immediate response to the whistle when he was hunting down a rabbitty hedge line 100m or so away. The sit at about 10m distance to hand signal when he was torn about hurtling away to say hi to an unknown dog and finally the one that scared me!!! We had been sat marking dummies and watching Dex the ESS doing his retrieves (both mine are off dummies at the mo ), Mugi was off-lead but Chase was on (although he stayed sat firm) cos this was Dexters training time. When Dex had finished I released Chase and almost immediately saw a large GSD coming round the hedge on lead. Chase legged it towards the GSD with me in hot pursuit as I call an apology to the owner (I wasn't going to mess with my pup ignoring a recall I just wanted him not to get caught up in something). The owner called out his dog was ok as it was muzzled which made me even more certain to stop my little lad getting embroiled. To my surprise Chase obviously read the dog well, he stood stock still weighing up the situation from about 5m away from the dog and turned away!!!!!!!!!!! He came back so I popped him in a sit and got his leash on.
Chase absolutely adores his large housemate Brice so not only do I have a Brittany who is confident of his own superiority , I have one very used to rough play with a giant breed so a muzzled, large male GSD did give me a few scary moments. It would have been grossly unfair to the dog to be molested by Chase and a body slam from a powerful dog could have done Chase a fair amount of damage.
My little lad may be starting to mature   .
This next week will see me continuing to work on stays, positions and lead walking. His play will include hunting where I can pretty much bank on him only finding residual scent, I need his control better before I can risk him hunting too far on the land I am using at the mo. He will get no dummy work but his fluffy toy will be going out to try and get him back into retrieving without making the task a chore. |
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| Mugi |
Today has been the first day we have been up training on the shooting grounds.
In total there were my 4 dogs, 2 rescue spaniels and 3 young working cockers. We started with a cup of coffee and a discussion of what we all wanted from the time, we are all agreed that initially all dogs will be trained separately and once we have got them comfortable in the surroundings we will add the other dogs in as distraction and for group control exercises. When I say all I mean myself and the two others who have been given permission to train here. Chase started with a session of control work and he tried very hard. We did heel on lead (not good with alot of ground scent and distraction). Some lovely focus work with me increasing the distance to circles of approx 10m radius, at times he got too interested in his surroundings but when I stopped moving he brought his attention back to me. Some stays that he maintained well although his nose was twitching like a bunny .
Then sit to whistle as his Stop has become sloppy, he was doing well on the lead. We then had lunch so Chase was tethered to a bench. By the time I had fininshed unwrapping my sandwich a certain chap was lounging ON TOP of the picnic table .
After lunch he did a retrieve and although he ran out well he was not keen on coming back to me at all so I walked away to chat to my friends and once he came back he was ignored completely for a while. All in all though I decided he had minded me enough to be granted a hunting session. I cast him off and it was great to see the speed and scope of his legs, we were moving uphill more or less into the wind 
In the pic (taken on the last day of the season) we had moved from the lodge and this shot was about a third of the way up the hill, the cover gets a little thicker as you get higher. He continued to move well until a mxy rabbit literally hopped into him, this was just too much temptation and he caught the bunny (even a sloth could have caught it) and the bunny died without any input from Chase. For all his reluctance to retrieve dummies he brought me this prize and I spent a few moments holding the rabbit while it was still in his mouth stroking and praising him. I have noticed he has no reluctance to bring me game nor to hand it over. I left the rabbit in the fork of a tree and cast Chase off again, he continued to move over the ground well and hunt with purpose. He managed a clumsy point on a cock bird but as it was in deep bramble cover he couldn't get it to flush. He was getting quite frustrated so I popped his lead on and moved him away to cast him again. By now he was getting quite tired and I decided to call it a day before anything went wrong. Rather than recalling him I blew a STOP and was pleased to see him drop into a sit - he wasn't far away but that wasn't important, the fact he sat so promptly earned him a handful of chopped sausage. I was very pleased with how attentive he was to me, he was keeping a check on me while we moved up the hill and I was able to pull his hunting pattern with me. It was lovely to be able to let him truly run without me having to worry about roads etc so no over handling. At the moment we will be training on this land once a week but once the evenings get lighter we hope to get up more frequently, it is less than 10 miles from home so ideal. |
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| Mugi |
Another very productive day on the shooting grounds.
I decided this is not the place for retrieve training as it is too distracting and he fails, not much point setting him up to fail so we are doing retrieves elsewhere with mixed success. So his first time out of the car was a 15 minute heelwork session on lead. I wanted to keep his nose off the ground and the lead loose and we did it. The nose was the harder problem to solve but I was overall pleased. While we walked past the ducks a whole load got up and little one stood rock solid without any prompting .
As his control work was good he got a hunt. We set off into a pheasant pen to start, he was steady on lead till we walked up there and I sat him off lead before he was released to hunt. I was very impressed, we hunted through the pen, across a mixed wood and onto an open grass field. He did not find a bird but he worked with purpose and both responded to whistle and my body laguage. I try not to over handle him as the last thing I want is to call him when he is on a scent and this is my biggest concern training him alone as I may miss a sign. As we hunted back through the wood he put up a Muntjac. He chased for only approx 20m and stopped (ish) to whistle. This is the first time he has really had anything tempt him to run and so I was pleased with his behaviour. He did not come straight back but checked out where the deer had been hunkered down before returning but even then he was not long and I guess scenting that area is good learning for him, I did not pip my recall again until he was back minding me as I do not want him to learn ignoring me is good .
At the final point where I wanted to catch him up as the underkeeper was doing some maintenance I blew the Stop Whistle and at a distance of approx 15m he sat immediately and stayed firm till I caught up and popped his lead on and gave him a tasty treat. He is such a good lad and after a busy few days at Crufts we were all glad to be out in the mud, rain and wind again .
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| Mugi |
This evening he had his first true point on a wild animal, I noticed him getting interested in an area while out for our 'rec' run with Mugi and Dexter the ESS. All of a sudden he slammed round and held a lovely point (thankfully while Dexter and Mugi were elsewhere), the rabbit he was on hopped away after a few moments and Chase didn't attempt to follow but recalled in nicely. | ||
| Mugi |
We have had a good morning. I took him to the shooting lodge and all we were doing was hunting.
We walked partially away from the lodge before starting as there was a GWT held over the weekend and I wanted to move him away from the ground that had been used. As we arrived at our start point we did a little reminder that I am in charge, he is great sitting waiting to be released although you can see him all quivering to go. I released him to hunt and off he went like a tornado, he soon settled down though and was running well and turning when I asked (not often incase I muck him up, just enough to remind him he is with me  ).
After about 5 mins he went on point and as I approached he produced a cock pheasant, at the moment he is flushing by himself as he is not experienced enough and the more birds we get the more I will impose control. At the moment he just needs to get the connection that the bird is what we are after. He thoroughly investigated where the bird had been and then I called him on. We did a little control work before I released him to hunt again. As we proceeded towards a stream I noticed two fantastic male Roe Deer in full antler. They were watching us quietly and Chase hadn't sighted them although I think he had winded them, I asked him to sit and then made enough noise to move the deer on, I wanted Chase close enough to ensure he stayed sat - which he did without me physically restraining him in any way .
As we progressed I could see he was starting to tire when I saw a cock bird wandering ahead of us. I guided Chase onto the bird which he didn't sight - he followed the bird scent for a few minutes as the crafty bird scurried out of sight. We both lost the bird when we had to clamber over a fallen log .
Next bird Chase practically fell over and as it flushed from under his paws he was prompted to chase  , thankfully he responded quickly to the whistle and stopped (without sit) and returned eagerly.
By now he really was understanding what we were there for although he was tiring and he also had a tummy upset (somebody got himself into a large pack of treats and is suffering the consequences  ) so we called it a day.
As we walked back to the car with him off lead and staying close if not exactly to heel he again tripped over a hen bird. This time I was quick enough on the whistle as as she got up he kind of sat, bum certainly lowered although it didn't connect with the ground. He gave me a very arrogant stare so we didn't move on until that bum went were I expected it . I was happy with how he behaved, we hope to be back tomorrow and wednesday so he will be getting plenty of hunting. I have been lucky so far that all the birds we have found have been when we were close so he is seeing me as a worthwhile hunting partner. One thing I have noticed is that he is much keener to work on my right hand side than my left, even in still conditions so I need to set him up to work the other side as well I guess??? He is now sound asleep dreaming happily. |
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| Mugi |
Well, isn't it amazing how things suddenly start coming together.
Yesterday we had another hunting session, he didn't produce any birds although a couple flushed ahead of our approach and each time he sat without my intervention. He is sitting to whistle well and yesterday, with poor scenting conditions etc I ran him primarily to keep him moving at pace for a good stretch, thankfully there is plenty of residual scent so he was keen. Last night I worked a night shift and today my patience is non-existant and my temper uncertain , not the day to train so we went for a nice evening run with Dexter the ESS, Mugi and Chase. I do like Chase to run with Dex as he is another entire male and quite physical, Debbie and I never thought the lads would settle to play well but they are very well-matched and so he is another safe dog for Chase to learn social skills.
Chase is always last off-lead as the main road is close and he is soooo fast and although he has been 100% reliable on recall for a while now I will not get complacent. He was asked to sit and pratted around so we stayed on the lead a while longer. Next ask for a sit and although he did he anticipated his release so he was called back and put on the lead again, final time he was asked he did well and I was also pleased that he recalled first time when he must have known his fun was not guaranteed .
The only other thing to comment on, Dex and Chase have learned to wrestle under our feet , I am sure this is a ploy for us to seperate them and treat for calm behaviour . So tonight in mid wrestle I blew the sit whistle and someone's bum hit the ground so fast he had to be treated. Dexter still tried to egg him into mischief but he stayed firm till I let him off to play again. Having Dexter as a distraction is a great staging post between his housemates and unknown dogs. We can also now have three dogs sat in front and give treats to each dog by name and the others don't try to snatch .
Tomorrow I have to go to birmingham for a hosp appt, Chase and Mugi are coming too and we will be off to the lodge on the way back for another session. I am hoping there will be more wind than yesterday as I sighted a covey of partridge on some open grassland so will hopefully set him up to hunt them if I see evidence they are still about. (They should be as they are still being fed  ).
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| guy |
I hate to say it but they fall apart just as quickly
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| Mugi |
Please don't burst my bubble , Chase and I have had some ups and downs when I thought I had bitten off more than I could chew and I am so chuffed that now I see all my hard work and perseverance starting to pay off .
I know there will be days when he will reduce me to a jibbering wreck again but on balance I know see a steady improvement and so are others who are meeting him. I will not get complacent, I know there will be rocky roads ahead as he is a very strong minded being while being sensitive. Retrieve is still our weakest point but rightly or wrongly, until I have my health issues sorted I do not have the patience or commitment to work on it to the exclusion of all other things. I want to enjoy my lad and when I got him I was not anticipating my health getting in the way, it may mean he will not reach his full potential but once I am sorted I will see what I can do, accessing whatever help I need to do the best for him. He won't care I am sure if he never aspires to any titles or awards in any field, as long as he leads a fulfilled life I will be happy. |
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| guy |
I think it is like going up a spiral staircase. After one revolution you seem to have the same view but are a bit closer to your final goal. | ||
| Mugi |
Now Guy has got me seriously spooked I was convinced today's efforts would be a total disaster , nothing was further than the truth and he had a lovely point on a cock pheasant, again he doesn't hold point for long but I had enough time to praise him insitu before he flushed it.
He also ignored a chase on Muntjac and Hare without me commanding him, he just stood firm and watched them away. I couldn't find the partridge but it was blowing so hard I almost has an airborne Brittany at one point so I imagine any self respecting partridge was well tucked away. Two problems today, one was that even a fast moving pup can manage to graze on fresh grass while hunting, he was not keen I stopped him doing that. The other was he is turning downwind as he quarters, by the end of the session this seemed to be starting to correct so I need to get him into wind more, the last few days have been very still. Stop Whistle remains great and today was used at 25m or so, his ickle bum went straight to the ground and he stayed firm till I caught him up. I am varying the distances I ask him to stop so he doesn't anticipate me. Recall and generally staying with me is good too and his only real 'everyday' weakness is heelwork which has become sloppy as he is so keen to hunt and the ground is so muddy I am having enough trouble staying upright .
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| Mugi |
Today he had company and boy was that a distraction. John and Barbara brought Archie and Barney to look at the ground and train.
It did Chase good to walk through his hunting grounds on a lead rather than free, John hunted Barney for a while and then got me to cast off Chase. Chase immediately ran back to play with Archie and Barney, second time I started him further away and again he ran back, third time lucky as I was determined he was going to work rather than play. Mind you he has never had to hunt with an audience before and he is a social lad. Neither time did I need to go and fetch him, he did come back to me which was good. He wasn't flowing and he wanted to crop the grass so after a couple of decent turns I stopped him, and called it a day. He was also gobby while Barney and Archie ran. We then clambered to the top of the hill to view the whole of the shoot from the high vantage point. Of course now the winds got up and the rain was lashing down with sleet in it .
As we wandered back down the hill the sun came back out and we were sheltered so John was doing some retrieves with Barney and Archie with the Starting Pistol. Chase and I sat and watched, he was totally steady to shot and was marking the dummies well, if I had let him go I am sure he would have done well but as he is really not sound on his returning I didn't want to risk a failure. As we wandered back through the bluebell woods I was paying attention to my footing and missed Chase pointing and flushing a bird , he was only at the end of my slip lead so I annoyed to have missed such a great opportunity to 'control' the point/flush.
We ended the day with Barney and Archie doing a water retrieve, Chase was back in the car at this point and Mugi was happy to spectate and not get in the water in the cold wind .
All being well John and Barbara will be back next weekend when we will concentrate on training Chase with an audience and John will help me with the retrieve issue. The land I thought was ok has been given the seal of approval for training the boys, I haven't worked Chase in some of the denser woodland and John felt where I have worked him is open enough for a youngster. The open grassland was deemed ideal for training for an SPT so all I need now is to spend some time over the next week or so working into the winds and seeing what we can achieve with regards his hunting pattern and style. |
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| Patricia |
Well I think Guy has got a point...The basis of dog training have to be solid and well learnt before moving to another exercise. the key is short training sessions with reward and " punishment" too- in the words of Guy's book, from L'abbe Goddard- ie putting the dog away or heel and sit for 10mns on lead.
Chase's line is fairly" hot" but intelligent and fast due to his breeding. Which is line bred too. With such dogs you need a firm hand but no bullying. For success, I would also take advice from a well qualified trainer with good field trial awards who knows how to put some points across and also sound knowledge the breed. Not all HPR's are the same. Make one mistake and it can set you back months... Patricia |
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| Mugi |
I totally understand your point Patricia, while introducing the new exercises around hunting we continue short lessons on lead walking, stays are good and he is doing retrieves in small doses and in situations where he isn't set up to fail by running off with the dummy.
I am planning on seeing a trainer as soon as my health situation permits me to make any plans longer than a few weeks ahead .
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| Patricia |
" am planning on seeing a trainer "
Fantastic Sue, you won't regret it...A good teacher is worth its weight in gold. Best of luck with everything else. We'll be thinking of you...
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| Mugi |
Today Chase did some puppy retrieves and he was very keen despite the supreme distraction of two 5 month puppies. He did rather nicely and he is very very keen to get whatever the retrieve article is and he was better returning to me.
As I know the giving up of his retrieve is the hardest part for him I am going to continue high reward for coming into me and I am now sitting on the floor having a good cuddle while he is allowed to hold the article, when he is relaxed I am also holding the toy while praising him and not attempting to take it, final stage is swapping the retrieve for a treat. He was much happier to return to me the subsequent retrieves. Oddly the final retrieve was on an old dummy that he didn't like to hold and in the end he gave it a disgusted look and he came hurtling back to me for his cuddle without it . I was very pleased though with him, there was some game scent and a audience of the two pups so it was nice to see him focussed on what I was asking him to do.
He was very steady to the ducks on the pond and only got tempted to run in when a whole heap flighted at once. Again he was easily stopped and turned to the job in hand without resorting to a lead to move him on. Sometimes it is hard to remember he is still such a baby as he can be very steady, thankfully then he does something very 'babyish' and reminds me to not expect him to be perfect all the time .
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| Mugi |
Today we just did some retrieving and basic manners. My friends could really see a difference in his decision to come back to me with his dummy and were impressed with how much he has come on in the last week or so.
All retrieving is without added control and would not earn us points in a test but he wants to do it and he enjoys it at the moment so control can come later. His heel work, sit to whistle and stays were good and he sat tidily while the cockers were being trained on blinds and directional retrieves. He does not like being the one not doing so this is also a valuable lesson to learn. |
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| guy |
One of the things that strikes me from reading the French books is how gentle they are in training a puppy; but once an adult who knows what is expected - then DO AS YOU ARE TOLD! or there will be consequences. This is I think very similar to trainers like Bill Thayne who say there is a transition between 'should do ' to 'must do'. HOT fast intelligent dogs - they are the ones that are so exciting to handle and watch. (Although not all judges know the difference between hard running dogs and dogs out of control! ) YOU ARE VERY LUCKY to have one! |
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| Mugi |
Chase has obviously reacquired the retrieve bug - over the last few days I am having shoes, toys, rubbish all brought to hand for cuddles and praise .
I am making sure I acknowledge and praise for each and everything he is picking up and bringing me although I had to bite my tongue when he picked up a very expensive shoe , it came to me though with no damage. He is soooo proud of himself and I want to be careful to not put him off the idea so no 'control' and a tidy house is the order of the day for the moment so he doesn't get anything too inappropriate.
At the same time he is very switched on to the dummy so all is going well. |
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| Patricia |
Sue, Chase's father is a retrieverholic...he still at the grand old age of 13 brings complete dog beds which he drags, shoes, TV controls, cushions from the settee, washing off the radiator, and even...tries to being me the ...cat. As for game, anything and everything goes.
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| Mugi |
Fab hunting session today with an audience of John A and Barney. Chase was committed to hunting and was not bothered by the proximity of another dog at all.
Then, once the rain had stopped and the sun had come out we went to the duck pond that we had previously sussed out as a venue for water retrieves. Chase watched Barney initially and was getting keen to try. The first attempt he dithered on the bank and Barney had to go get the dummy. Second attempt I very gently coaxed him in the water and he waded out for the dummy and retrieved it to me nicely. Second and third throws were to the same point and he was hurtling out keenly - and returning .
The next throw was further and he waded then took that transition to swimming easily, got the dummy and came back in for a huge fuss and cuddle - ok I got wet but he needed the praise . Final throw saw him hurtle out for the dummy and he kept on swimming  , he exited on the wrong side but came back ok - sadly leaving the dummy that time but HE WAS SWIMMING .
I stopped at that point as he had done so well and he had had a busy session. |
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| Annie as admin |
I am SO jealous of all you people who are near each other and can benefit from each other's help. Even after moving I'll still be about 300 miles from most of you. Logistically impossible to meet up except on rare Club occasions - four dogs and 2 cats to be accommodated with care. Ducks can probably look after themselves once they are settled beside the river | ||
| Patricia |
Well done Sue and your pup!!! because he still is a baby!!
You 're getting there! Yes Anne, we are lucky, I value the friendship I made with some Club members. Some have become firm friends and we can have shooting days where we have a good old chat wondering through the fields with the dogs- does not get netter than that- and a good bottle afterwards!! Now we are looking forward to the spring pointing test and more fun!
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| Mugi |
At times seeing him working it can be hard to remember just how young he is, then he comes for a cuddle as he is now, draped over me and he looks such a baby still.
He is doing very nicely and I am very pleased with him but now I am going to consolidate where we are rather than keep trying new stuff. I wanted to try the water as he has been showing himself so close to getting in but otherwise we will work on control while hunting and refining retrieves - while ensuring it all remains fun. Nice short sessions with just a few longer ones thrown in so he learns to chill while others work and then switch back on for his turn. He so wants to work, he also wants to please and thrives on praise and fuss so I will build on what I have. |
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| Mugi |
Well, after a busy weekend of travel, the SPT and his first invite to another house Chase was back to training today.
Mindful of what I learned at the weekend the plan for today was control. I worked on sharpening up his sit to whistle, his sit stays and his heel work. He worked his little socks off and did really nicely. Encouraged with his responsiveness I took out the dummy and tried some retrieves. We had a couple of long seen retrieves (well as far as I can throw them ) that went well, he sat as I threw them, hurtled off at top speed when asked and he came back to me, circled me once then sat by my side for a cuddle before letting me take the dummy. A couple of memories that he did pretty well then a memory he fluffed completely as a pheasant flushed while we were walking away from the dummy (and yes he sat to flush nicely). This seemed to dent his confidence quite quickly so a couple of fast seens that I let him run in on. Final stage was him sat while I lobbed dummies which I then picked up myself and a last easy memory so he was rewarded with the dummy.
After lunch (we start training with coffee and biscuits, train for a couple of hours then eat lunch before the afternoon session - it has to be civilised ) he did a very short session with a Bolting Rabbit and he was sooooo good, as this was his first time seeing it I had him sat to watch, first time it was released he crept forward slightly but the next times he was solid in his sit. Next stage with that will have him walking around the field near the Bolting Rabbit and getting him to sit to release. We also plan on attaching a pheasant and a partridge to the elastic for helping teach steadiness as we progress through.
The rest of the time I was helping my friends with their spaniels and the only contact Chase has with them is to watch and keep his gob shut. He is really improving with this even when he wants to join in. |
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| Mugi |
Little one has worked so hard today!!
He started doing off lead heelwork all over the estate by the side of pheasant pens and down various rides. It takes a lot of concentration from both of us but by 20 mins in he was really minding his manners and surprising me. His sit to whistle was sluggish but apart from 'being disappointed' I was so chuffed with the heelwork that I wasn't too insistent in case the other fell apart , his little tail never stopped wagging and his nose was drinking in all the scent.
We then did some retrieves in very gamey areas, none were too difficult as I wanted him to remain focussed on the dummy rather than getting sidetracked as this was our first time working on retrieve in the midst of the game areas. He did really nicely and seemed to want to work with me. Final part of the morning session was hunting in woodland, I wanted this to be more about minding his manners with me so he could hunt freely if he was remaining in my line of sight but as he pulled too far I insisted in him coming back in. He had a whale of a time as there was loads of scent but no game (I didn't really want him to find any as the object was to remain control when he was getting more aroused). Initially his recall was, shall we say inventive - he knew he had to come back but he was taking the most circuitous route he could while not actually disobeying I asked for a few hundred metres of heelwork before starting again and he did manage to remember recall should be fast and direct.
After lunch he came out again for some more retrieves. He did well on seekback and seen but we encountered a problem with memories. I knew and he knew I knew that he knew where the dummy was but for some reason I could not get the swine to fetch it, he stayed rock solid in his sit. As I wasn't sure what to do I went to get the dummy myself, he ran and got it before me and brought it nicely to hand. I had no idea how to handle him, he brought the dummy beautifully and I didn't want to chastise him for bringing it back in the one sense but he was taking the pee. I acknowledged the lovely present but as I didn't want him to practice messing about he went in the car for a spell. Final session of training was jumping, I don't jump dogs young but he is now 13 mths plus so he had a low jump to negociate, first without a dummy was sooooo easy, next he was doing it with puppy dummy and it was still a breeze so finally he was doing it with a full size dummy thrown by a third party (and not his dummy) and he did great. Then he went loopy as this was obviously an arousing game. So back away he went and he is shattered .
A really good day for both of us. |
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| Mugi |
Mum must do better .
I am now moving Chase forward in his retrieving in distracting gamey areas and he is doing pretty well, as in many things he gets himself so excited that his behaviours fall apart pretty quickly so short sessions are the order of the day and remembering to end on a high. Thursday highlighted a real problem though, a friend was throwing me some long seen retrieves and Chase was consistently marking VERY short, he was correcting himself without handling but it brought home a real lesson. I throw like a girl and after a car crash a few years ago leaving residual nerve damage in my neck and arm I throw like a girl very badly .
Luckily I have access to help at least once a week so we will work on improving his marking for distance. When his seen retrieves were falling into cover he was still marking short but was totally committed to finding the dummy even though the area was only recently vacated by a couple of pheasants. My friend could see him when he was out of my view and she indicated when he had the dummy so I could recall him at the right moment. He did 6 retrieves and his delivery at the end was starting to fall apart and you could see the excitement rising so we called it a day, I was very pleased though. |
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| johnhod |
Not that cheap but have you thought of getting a dummy launcher, it's one way to get over having to throw.
http://search.ebay.co.uk/dummy-launcher_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40 |
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| Mugi |
A good idea John, I actually have access to a dummy launcher so I may see how he is (or perhaps more importantly how I am ) with one.
This is one reason why it is great to train with a couple of like minded people as between us we are pooling loads of useful kit, some of it doubling up from my agility days but it is all coming in handy and anything we want to buy we are sharing costs as it benefits us all. One of the girls has rescue spaniels and she wants to train for scurries, the obstacles and fencing we are putting together is equally as useful in slightly different configurations for the two of us who aim to compete (aim high and you never know) as it is a controlled way of teaching obstacle work and we can also create channels to improve retrieving delivery. My other friends cockers are a year older than Chase so more into fine tuning than learning new skills. |
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| Mugi |
A short session today but a definite small step made.
Chase and I were working on turning to whistle which was going well when he realised one of the dogs was working on the periphery of the field we were in. I decided to change to control training as our response to the turn whistle is variable at the moment as we are really only just starting out.
So Chase did a lovely couple of duration stays in his part of the field and his focus remained on me although he was aware of the other dog working. This is high distraction training for him as he adores playing so although he did well over a minute each time I was more thrilled by the distances I was able to move away from him - including 10m behind him which in effect meant he had total ability to run to the other dog with no ability on my part to catch him. Of course all training sessions must have at least one session when I despair and todays was when he ran out for a retrieve, collected his dummy then on the return stopped and managed to stuff a dead baby bird in his gob along with the dummy. I so enjoyed recieving that one .
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| Mugi |
To hot for much today but we had arranged for a meet at the lodge so off we went.
I decided to hunt and do control work with Chase in the wood and he did very nicely as I also took the camera, he didn't take advantage .
Waiting to be let run 
Sit to whistle 
Sit while left in the pheasant pen 
Looking all growed up 
Running through the bluebell wood 
Just a little bit further 
Got it
And I can swim with it too
A good day of fun training and I even got delivery to hand or feet without problem with running off. |
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| barbara |
Chase, Mugi & fingerBrilliant pictures of Chase Sue!Glad to see Mugi is fighting back, no wonder he was in shock. Hope your finger heals up quickly too. Barbara
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| Victoria |
THAT FACE!!! | ||
| johnhod |
Love the one on the HPR forum, where he looks like he's pulling tongues at you | ||
| Mugi |
So do I John, I think he was objecting to a girlie pose in the flowers .
Here he is for those that don't view the HPR forum 
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| Patricia |
I really love your photos...it makes everything come to life
Have you thought about writing a book on your adventures?! 
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| sallie |
What a handsome lad Chase is. lovely pictures too. | ||
| Mugi |
What a clever lad I have .
I have not really done much training for various reasons the last few weeks, just consolidating what we have. Today though Chase had his first go with a dummy launcher, I was not worried about how he retrieved (or even if he would retrieve ) but I wanted to see how he dealt with the noise and whether he marked well.
So the dummy was fired and a small head watched the dummy fly the whole trajectory from launcher to fall. I released him and he shot off in the correct direction but he lost confidence on his run quite quickly. I joined him on a hunt the dummy expedition and moved him in closer to the area it fell till he hunted it out and found it. Delivery was all to pot as he was thrilled to be carrying the dummy. Once I had reacquired the dummy we had another go and the second time he marked and hunted out the dummy with no help from me at all . Delivery again was (insert rude word ) but he is doing so well on other aspects of retrieve that I had made a conscious decision to wait for advice on the training day about delivery as I don't want to put him off.
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| sallie |
Nice to catch up on Chase's antics - he is going to be such a clever dog in the field as he is very young at the moment and knows so much already... what is happening with Mugi? | ||
| johnhod |
Great to have you back Sue | ||
| Mugi |
We are not back for good but I have borrowed for a short while .
Sallie, Chase is very bright but mindful of what Patricia has advised we do short bursts of training and I am lucky to be able to vary things in good land. Mugi is now pretty much 'retired' from training , he goes out and potters around having a good sniff etc. I will do some retrieve training on cold game a little nearer the start of the season but he is now off dummies which is a combination of boredom, too few teeth and also an element of puffing a bit so holding a dummy for long is tiring.
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| guy |
I hope you will all join me in wishing Sue well with her op today.
Also a little boast on her behalf - Chase took 'Best Dog' at the club open show yesterday. |
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| Patricia |
Did Sue get her card yesterday Guy?
We certainly wish her all the best and hope she is soon back on form telling us about Chase's latest" antics" I was really pleased for her winning Best Dog under Joanne. She is working hard with him and it shows... I hope it cheered her up enough not to dread too much her op... Hospitals are never nice places.
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| Liz |
I thought Chase looked really great yesterday
Wishing Sue all the best for today. |
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| johnhod |
Annie and Hayley passed the card to Sue as she was leaving the ring. Hope you enjoy a speedy recovery,and can get to a computer to post your own brags about Chase and Mugi's exploits in the ring yesterday. | ||
| Victoria |
CONGRATULATIONS TO CHASE!!!!! Well done, Sue. You have so much to consider at the moment. Best wishes for your surgery. | ||
| barbara |
Sue, what a great day for you and Chase yesterday, WELL DONE!!
Look forward to seeing you after the op, Good Luck! |
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| Mugi |
Well, a certain young lad was pleased to get his mum home and as I am limited in not being able to talk I decided we would do some free shaping (clicker training which is initially done without handler commands).
He must have missed exercising his brain as I have never had him work so well or so hard on a concentrated exercise. He is now quite shattered so at least I know I can continue this particular exercise without too much effort on my part and he won't miss out too badly - ideal .
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| Mugi |
Thrilled!!!!!!!!!!
Today, for various reasons saw Chase (and Mugi) having a run for the first time since my surgery started. The longest 11 days in little one's life I bet. I was viewing this with a little trepidation as he has been very patient but you could almost see the spring tightening . So armed with stinky sausage and a whistle we went, I did decide to drive where I would normally do a 10 min road walk to our destination as I felt two excited Brittanys would potentially be a bit much.
This was not overt training for the simple reason that would mean me using voice commands, just a good stretch of paws in the countryside. He was a dream, recalled each time, never went further than 50m and he was so in tune with me. Alot of the time he was milling round my feet interacting with me rather than hurtling away. This was a great venue too, we walked for an hour and a half in open countryside, in the set aside by a large wheat field (both he and Mugi were convinced there was game in there and they were probably right) but this is Open Access Land so no way were they allowed onto the crop and to give them due they both were responsive to my NO and "With me" command. Of course such a perfect walk had to have a downside , Chase suddenly became a tricolour but certainly not a perfect one after rolling in human s***. So home we came (thankfully he doesn't need lifting into the car now ) and straight in the bath. Shall we say that his heelwork was not close for the final element as we got close to the car .
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| Annie as admin |
Yuk - what dreadful people could do that? | ||
| Mugi |
Where to start - first day back in training since my op.
I arrived at the lodge an hour before my friend so after a stretch of the paws for Mugi (who is still struggling with balance post 'stroke') himself was let loose. I started off by walking Chase up a steep bank to heel and entered a pheasant pen that has recently been enlarged. No whistle with me cos I find it difficult to blow at the mo so I just wanted to see how well he would work with me if I was quiet. He scurried from place to place checking out a lot of scent but he was engaged with me the whole time. We worked through the pen (no birds in there) and exited the far side. As we walked back at heel round the perimeter he became hugely animated so I let him go sniffing, I am certain he was on deer scent but he recalled (insisting on him coming to front properly) and carried on. We walked through the woods with him close although not at heel all the time (I wasn't asking him to be at heel I hasten to add) and made our way back to the car where I collected a dummy. Two seen retrieves on open ground which he brought straight back to me with no pratting about, not great delivery but no running in circles. Next I popped him in a sit and walked 25m away, he stayed solidly for over 2 mins and I returned before he started to lose interest so I could reward him. I decided a drink was in order for both of us so he had a rest, Mugi stretched his paws again and then my friend arrived. We were planning on doing some retrieving with her spaniels but before we got started the keeper asked if we would join him in a pen with dogs to work out a muntjac that was eluding him. I decided to take Chase with a view to keeping him on the lead for steadiness, Mugi is just not fit enough. So Chase joined 4 spaniels and 4 labs to work out the pen, in the end I let him off and he worked hard but better still he was working with other dogs, keeping focussed on me and minding his manners with some quite assertive labs (I know them well and know they are under control). We didn't find the deer but I didn't have anything but positive work from him .
We went back to the car and did the planned retrieving with the two spaniels, then my friend threw three retrieves for me on a grassy woodland ride, he nailed them all easily (I was careful to keep my gob shut ) and returned them to me in front.
We then had a hunting session for the spaniels and finally off to the lake where all three dogs (not Mugi for obvious reasons) had a whale of a time playing, swimming and all having a few retrieves, Chase brought all his back to me again. So all in all it was a really great session, my friend was impressed with how much more settled and focussed he was. |
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| Mugi |
A good session today.
Chase was working with Chrissie and Crispin today. Lead work which got easier towards the end .
Then off to the water where himself had to watch the younger dogs do their retrieves before he got his chance - he was pretty settled watching and apart from his 'new' problem of dropping the dummy short he was very good. TBH at the moment I am not doing much about the dropping short as he drops the dummy and then continues his recall to me, compared with the running all over with a trophy in his gob this is progress and I will see whether I can gently correct it before getting heavy and perhaps going back to the previous antics. So three really good retrieves and a definite keeness to be in water then a rest. After Archie and Mugi had had their turns (plus we had lunch) Chase did a slightly out of control session on a partridge. First off he retrieved well but then we had to move while a tractor moved onto the ride we were using and that was enough distraction to lose Chase in terms of training. So his final session was watching Crispin and Chrissie do their land retrieves at which point Chase was being rewarded for being a quiet spectator. All in all I can see things are slowly coming together. |
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| Mugi |
Woooo hooooooo.
My main aim yesterday was staying with me and sit to stop whistle. Staying with me, in this context it is not staying to heel but close hunting keeping an eye on where I am and not needing much correction to keep him in range - we started in grass (much taller than him ) and then in woodland and he was fab.
Sit to stop whistle was even better, I started remedial and just had him sitting quickly while he was in close range and bimbling. He got it right 100% with no repetition of the command. I then got braver and was blowing my stop when he was moving faster away from me and when he was engaged with scenting as opposed to just bimbling. Again I had 100% up to 25m away from me with him running, he is slamming the brakes on really fast and sitting very solid while he watches what I want next. At the moment I do not move him on until I have walked up to him and rewarded in situ as I don't want him to start anticipating a release, his taking of direction command is most definitely work in progress .
No retrieves because by the time I was in the right place he was panting heavily and I saw little point in risking him dropping the dummy etc. In addition he will be starting help dogging in next week - my cunning plan is to work him on the very periphery of the shoot on a long line so I can avoid any accidents but to keep him where there are fewer birds, I hope he will start to develop some duration in his pointing cos at the moment he is too fast. For the 'harder' work closer into the pens I will use Mugi and Freddy (Fred is a good little worker as long as he doesn't hear nasty scary bangs ), there will be too much scent for Chase and it would fry his brain I am sure to see thousands of young pheasants in one place. The keeper is philosophical if the dogs actually catch the odd bird but I would rather Chase didn't get the opportunity hence the line until such time as I can assess how he is remembering Stop etc in the more exciting (but not overwhelming) areas.
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| Mugi |
Stop Whistle less good today but nose was twitching cos he could scent the young pheasants who were safely tucked in their pen . He never went badly wrong but I could tell his mind was torn.
We were then again asked to help clear a muntjac from one of the pens. This time Chase stayed pretty close and I didn't give him the opportunity to hunt freely as there were 10 other dogs working and I wanted to know where he was cos we had 2 guns with us. I am using this as an opportunity to keep him close, paying attention to me and also to keep him concentrating in canine company which is something I find hard to achieve in a 'normal' environment, I know it is not strictly valid for the type of work he will ultimately do. I was totally thrilled that he froze rock solid to gunfire , he has heard starting pistols, dummy launchers and gunfire from a distance but to have a shotgun fire about 15m away while he was hunting was a first and he froze before I could react to command him - yippee.
We then spent a tiring and scratched (my friends and I not the dogs) few hours ripping out an old barbed wire fence that has been over-run with thorn bushes, brambles and stinging nettles - I am sporting a few foreign bodies at the mo - the thorns are too deep to dig out with a needle so I am hoping Silicea will help. Final training was some watching others retrieve from the water while left in a sit approx 10m away from me and finally 2 nice swims out for a new dummy and I got the dummy back both times without messing. He is a tired and dirty Brittany this evening but he has enjoyed his day. |
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| Mugi |
Different type of training but yesterday Chase went to Bakewell Show - apart from the Dog Show where he was entered in AVNSC he spent the morning wandering a very busy show, he saw all sorts including the big heavy horses - heaps of dogs, noise and he was a very good lad - he even sat tidily while we had breakfast .
He was ok in his class - moved ok, stood well and after biting his tongue at Nat Gundog he was fine with the judge checking his bite. He was a tad distracted by being in the ring with a girlie dog though .
After the show he and Mugi enjoyed a good romp with their young friend (the three dogs have never free run together before) on the Tissington Trail (decent disused railway walk/cycle track with good visibility) and all three were great recalling to the whistle and burning energy. He is getting much better at going out and about (without me having a dislocated shoulder ) and I am thrilled that he is turning into a very social dog who loves romping with his kind but he also has good manners and seems to quickly 'read' which dogs are either not going to want to play or those he should avoid, he very definitely will actively not make eye contact with mature males that are posturing while at the same time he is no shrinking violet.
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| Mugi |
After our busy holiday we were today water training with a variety of HPR's on a day that was initially arranged as a session for dogs almost ready to trial.
Chase was with the young dogs and he did well, after some initial hesitation he was in and swimming strongly and keenly. By the end of his sessions he was bringing me back his game to hand and he was demonstrating for our group how to advance to starting blinds on water. Our trainer was very happy with him and feels I will have no issues with water as long as I can get him to experience as many different entries as possible. I am not sure if there are any pictures of him working as I was concentrating on him but if there are I will try to post them with permission. |
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| johnhod |
Sounds like a real success story in the making Sue. Well done to both Chase and you (not necessarily in that order). | ||
| Mugi |
Not sure about that John, he is lightyears ahead of me and I am having to learn so much but we will continue to try and see where we end up. I was pleased with how he behaved in general - he was not perfect by any stretch but he also stayed manageable even when very excited and he didn't mess with any of the other dogs. We watched some of the advanced dogs retrieving with a starting pistol too and he was sooo alert but stayed sat calmly. I was asked if I wanted to try him but he had worked so hard and I wanted to leave him on a high - he hasn't yet retrieved duck so chose to pass the opportunity this time. He is snoring so hard in his crate now .
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| Mugi |
Here he is proving he can do it.
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| johnhod |
Nice pics Sue. Where was the session held? | ||
| Mugi |
It was the one advertised on the HPR Forum John, near Buckingham on the road to Brackley. A variety of ponds with different entries so the dogs had a chance to work with a number of different entries although the pups only used two and all baulked at the deep entry with weed. We all ended with a good retrieve from each dog though.
If you check out the link Greyghost popped on the HPR Forum you can see a short video of Chase's first attempt on pigeon with some poor handling from his mum cos he fancied the bitch just up the bank .
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| Mugi |
First hunting since the crop was harvested - well first wide ranging hunting for months and he did good . It wasn't perfect by any means but he only ignored me twice and even then he was not wildly out of control. A couple of good whistled turns as he was getting close to the recently released partridge the keeper didn't want disturbing (wind blowing so he shouldn't get pulled that way too) which he obeyed well and all in all I was happy.
Next we had a few tries of dummy retrieve to shot which had mixed results, he got the first well but dropped it short, the second came to hand although spat at me, the third was a mess as he either blanked it or didn't mark it well - mind you it wasn't his dummy, he was tired and the ground was lush. Something to work on and much more positive than a few months ago. The final positive was when I worked him back into the wind to find the 'lost' or 'ignored' dummy and he got it and brought it me back, delivery again needs refining but still getting there. I also have witnesses to some nice off lead heelwork - which for those that see me being towed on a lead must be a stretch too far to imagine but he did do it .
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| doganjo |
Sue, great pictures - how about sending them to Donald for the website?
Annie |
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| Mugi |
Will have to check that Brenda/Wayne are ok with that (although they did say yes to them being on the forum).
Will also hopefully have some nice pics of Mugi and Chase coming soon from a pro photographer who is happy for me to use them as I wish - both in a formal pose. Sadly not many more from me for a while as t*** managed to smash her £600 camera/lens on her tiled floor yesterday .
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| Lin Dyke |
Sue, does your household insurance cover accidentlal damage  Could be worth checking out.
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| Mugi |
Hi Lin
Have submitted a claim and now waiting to see if they will try repair or just replace. TBH I don't mind which although upgrading would be good .
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| Lin Dyke |
Fingers crossed Sue
I akso think the photos of Chase are brill'
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| Mugi |
We were off for some hunting training today. There was a brisk wind coming over the crest of the hill and I was somewhat dismayed to see a large covey of partridge fly in front of us as we were walking to the point I could cast him off as the keeper was filling the feeding stations (I have to move him past a certain point so as not to risk him running back into the cover crop which would scupper my agreement to still be training now the birds are down).
Chase was already struggling to manage himself in the presence of scent and seeing the birds he initially froze and then sat to watch them fly past but I worried he would disappear downhill after the birds so I did some control work before letting him off lead and casting him off. When I cast him off he worked the wind nicely, he was turning tightly and covering his ground pretty well and was following my body language and turning on a whistle. Then heart in mouth moment when he was about 15m ahead another load of partridge flew left to right in front of him. Again he stood firm and on a whistle he plopped his bum on the ground too. I walked up to him and slowly & quietly praised his steadiness. We continued in this vein till we got almost to the crest of the hill when he took off at mach speed and ignored me completely. In a moment I saw a heap of crows rising and soon a norty lad was coming back. You could see that he had just mentally gone over the top so we headed back the way we came with him walking to heel off lead. I don't know how many times I almost tripped over him when he tried to turn across me to get his nose back into the wind but at least he stayed tight with me.
As we walked back I was spotted on the field by someone in a 4x4 who started to drive towards us and in doing so more partridge got up , again Chase was very steady and so I got another opportunity to praise him without actually having to command the stop. When the vehicle drew level it turned out to be one of the shoot owners sons who hadn't recognised me (or Chase as of course Mugi is the dog they know from working) so we had a chat during which Chase got bored and decided to lunge around now he was back on the lead . It took me a lot of hard work to get him back concentrating as we walked back down through the wood to the car but we got there.
Considering I introduced a new dog yesterday afternoon I was very pleased with him, he worked hard and was nicely steady for the most part and minding me. |
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| Mugi |
We had a short mixed session today on a freshly planted and somewhat muddy field.
Initially I just did some off-lead heelwork, then I cast him off to see what he would do with little wind and new ground. He was sooooo funny, the sun was low and after a few nice sweeps he suddenly saw a pylon - hackles went up and standing firm he was barking at it, he seriously spooked himself and it took a while for him to figure out he was barking at nothing .
We then did a few retrieves, this is still our weakest area as he is keen to bring back a fast seen but add in much control and he is bored (or naughty??). I did manage to get him to follow a hedge line onto a blind but he was really not keen, he would definitely rather hunt. Now if it was a bird he would work his socks off to find it but he is not really interested in the dummy. I also found that once the dummy was dirty he was not prepared to pick it up - needs a lot more work to increase the value of the dummy me thinks. Final success was courtesy of some crows, they were dotted around the field and each time one took flight I took the opportunity to blow a whistle sit - he did well. |
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| doganjo |
Hi Sue
Was this all on your own? I'm interested to know how to put out blinds as I have no-one to help me. Short of going out onto someone else's land the day before and risk my dummies being nicked I don't know the answer. The other idea I had was to park the car nearby if possible - (not usually possible down here, I usually have to walk a fair bit0 - and put dummies out then go back for him. |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
Won't Bill set them up for you if you ask him
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| doganjo |
I daresay he would but I don't/can't see him every day do I. We are nearly an hour apart. Neither he nor I have the time for that, nor the energy. | ||
| guy |
Annie could you give us your definition of a 'blind' as i am slightly confused as to why you would wish to place a dummy in a field the day before. | ||
| Ghilliegumdrop |
Not only you Guy......everyone on here is confused
Perhaps Allez is going to start a tracking diary as well
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| Dave A |
I know blood hounds are good on 3 or 4 day old scent and still find the escaped convict, is it similar to that. | ||
| doganjo |
Blind means the dog hasn't seen where it is, doesn't it? Did I not explain that there isn't any way of him not seeing where I drop a dummy? He is smart - he would know if we were walking along a track and one accidentally on purpose fell out of my pocket onto the ground. He has in fact done so - perhaps I'm not subtle enough? Or he has pretty good hearing?
In any case I can't do what you suggested in another post - one or maximum two dummies and he blinks the next one. Every time, the third one is blinked no matter what type of dummy it is, feather or fur or plain. Now real birds, that's different!
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| guy |
i think you are talking about two different problems.
If you want to drop a dummy without the dog seeing it send the dog off to hunt, drop the dummy as you walk and then call the dog back to heel. Or drop it at the beginning of the walk / session and return to it at the end after you have done lots of other stuff. Retrieve two but not three dummies - this is the dog retrieving for itself and not because you want it to. The dog has to learn that it 'must' rather than 'should' Every time you let it retrieve only two and not the third you have reinforced the dog controlling the situation not you. How soon after the refused second retrieve would your dog start again? I am not advocating dummy pile type retrieving but several retrieves in a session of 15 mins - one at the beginning one at the end and one in the middle or even two at the beginning an done at the end? Do you make it 'fun' do you let him run in. Do you praise him in an over the top manner and roll around the floor with him when he succeeds? |
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| Patricia |
"this is the dog retrieving for itself and not because you want it to."
Thsi is yet another problem. Some dogs don't want to retrieve ( dummys or others) and it is very hard work to make them do so. In France, they are made to " force retrieve" which is lenghty but then the dog will fetch anything. I prefer the quicker way in having a " natural" keen retriever and I think this quality is passed on. Shame Bill is no longer with us
It takes great determination from the handler to get the dog to retrieve what he / she is asked. Maybe others will share their ways? |
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| Mugi |
I was on my own Annie.
I was walking the field margin and while Chase was hunting and fixed well and truly away from me I dropped his dummy on the edge of the field. I continued to hunt him away from the area and only as we were heading back and I had him in 'obedient' mode not hunting did I set him up to fetch his dummy using a signal. He is not yet confident doing this and so I am talking baby distances and a high reward. He only does one dummy retrieve that is not thrown or I am likely to get him sticking waiting for help, so one hard (for him) retrieve, a few fast seen and stop before he gets bored, I do not want him blinking dummies and so we do short sessions only at the mo. |
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| guy |
If you trawl my posts on the HPR forum you will see I wrote about having a one year old HPr and i sought advice to increase retrieving drive. It has been a long and I have to say enjoyable process and Pat you have seen the results.
My route to success was : only one retrieve at a session at the start. When we went out on a walk he had a dummy to carry for quite a while, i had access to a catslide roof which was 'great fun' lobbed the dummy up the roof and he brought it back to hand. Make a low table for the dog to sit on - send for the retrieve and bring it back to the table. Water - he loves water so did retrieves in water. Joined a retriever class. limited the vocabulary to 'back' and 'there'. Clicker to stop spitting the dummy at feet but hold it. let him run in every so often. i know he wouldn't do dummy piles even now - i tried it with 5 brace of partridge and after about 6 retrieves he was running over them to look for something further away. Mind numbingly simple retrieves will do just that make them numb. Give the dog something it has to work out. Make it a 'job' not a 'chore' Decide what you want from you dog. if you only need a couple of 'game retrieves' at a time and it does those don't waste your time or the dogs time on dummies. if you want to do working tests then stop the game and get on with only the dummy. if you want a dog that will do as you bid stop making excuses and make sure it does as you tell it when you tell it. (gosh I sound like Bill there) |
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| Mugi |
He has worked his little socks of today, he had a good session before I went beating, turn whistle and stop whistle all done well, a hunt through a game crop that has no game down (the shoot decided it couldn't afford to run this year) and then just a run for runnings sake once he had proved he was 'with me'.
This evening as I got back from beating early we have done some indoor retrieve work - hunt the toy and swap for some of his supper and he really enjoyed that. He then had a mad play with this biggest brother and is now snoring peacefully .
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| Mugi |
Chase has been coming to the shoot with me a few times so he can start to socialise with a greater number of dogs, he gets to see people and meet some dogs but not do anything actually on the shoot. Today he had an invite that I did decline but it was so nice to have him invited out.
One of the keepers takes his 'truck' containing his 5 males to the various drives and he offered to take Chase along so he could watch proceedings. Now the reason I turned this offer down was cos I felt a not quite 20 month old male would find it very difficult to enter the territory of 5 other males (one of which is quite dominant) and not either be cowed or feel the need to stick up for himself. The senior keeper and I had a long chat this evening (he agreed Chase would be stressed in that situation) and the upshot is that Chase will be out on monday for his first taste of a shoot. He will be positioned away from the action and all we will be doing is control, socialisation and calm watching. He will not be hunting or retrieving and I will be in a position to reward him highly for working on self control with distraction. He will be withdrawn into the box I usually use for Mugi if it is all too much but he will have the invaluable chance to be a passive observer which is one of the things I feel he would find hard in a trial. We will do no work in cover so he can do heelwork on grass rides and seeing how he is maturing I really hope this will be a positive experience for him - if it isn't we have a back-up. Fingers crossed monday will go well, mind you Mugi and Piper will be unimpressed if they realise they are giving way to "the brat" .
I will never use Chase as a beating dog but the fact he is going to be allowed to absorb some of the atmosphere in a controlled (by me) way is great while I sort out getting him shot over in a more appropriate manner. |
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| Mugi |
Great day - I have one very tired and happy Brittany.
He was so chilled on the beaters bus, only 6 dogs out today including him which was why he came today.......some of the regular dogs I would not want him with. All morning he walked to heel (on lead as there was no way I was risking it go wrong), stopped to shot, waited patiently (well apart from a stroppy before we got going but once he heard shot and saw birds he was so focused) and was generally very well behaved. We got to beat on fringes and were never downwind of the main amount of birds so he was able to find the odd straggler but didn't have his nose fried with masses of scent. After lunch we did a great drive from his perspective as it involved a long downhill walk into wind to get to our start point, a great chance for Chase to hunt freely into the wind as he would do no harm on the drive (we had to drive back up hill once we started). He ran fast and wide but turned each time I asked and came straight back to me when I needed to gather him in. After beating that drive he again got to run free into the wind and he was still very responsive to me despite the fact he had just watched a few hundred pheasant flying. It is interesting watching how actually working calms and focuses him. He may do a similar day before the end of the season just to give him more exposure of passively watching things. He is now a tight snoring ball by my side .
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| guy |
sue that is a lovely read. I take mine at heel on beat days - but it is the atmosphere that I am after for them. The association of gunfire with birds.
Just wait until he 'rates' the guns performance and gives you the rolled eyes look when they miss.
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| The Plum |
You are right Sue, actually working on a shoot can help a normally harebrained dog to focus. Normally Charlie, my cocker is an utter pest with a dummy in his mouth. He is so pleased with himself and wants attention so much that he wriggles and twists at my feet with it.
All that stops at shoots, he becomes all business and gives the birds to me much more quickly than he does a dummy. The little devil wants his mouth free to grab the next bird he's sent for !
Bill T. |
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| Mugi |
This last couple of weeks I seem to be working all hours which means daylight walks are few and far between. The dogs are having a good walk while I am at work but I AM NOT (ok I am also classing working on the shoot here so dogs come too in one form or other and I do enjoy that)!!!!
So today I have had a lovely time. First out was Chase on his own. There was a nice breeze and an area I have had my eye on, the only trouble being that it borders the busy A46 and there is no fence/hedge onto the road. Today the wind was perfect and himself was working with me so when we arrived at the entrance to the field I set him up and cast him off. Sadly we couldn't work an area I knew contained at least a brace of wild pheasant as it was just too close to the road. The cover was a mix of thistle, groundsel and a type of grass that had died back into tufts. Also the field was very furrowed from when they had turned it over but not graded it earlier in the year. He was quite unsure as he is more used to running on stubble and young winter wheat but once he got into his stride he covered his ground nicely although fairly slowly. I kept him on a tight beat (slightly less width than the FT at Bunwell) as I didn't want him outside my sphere of influence so close to the road and he turned nicely each time I pipped him. We worked out that field but found no birds, he took himself downwind to work the hedge back to me and showed some interest at one point where he wanted to break through onto the adjacent field. He was reluctant to come back through - you could see his cogs turning.....shall I/shan't I??? one additional recall whistle and he came back. I then let him have a full pelt run before bringing him back close to work through a strip of long grass and trees next to a drainage ditch. I know the area often has bunnies but nothing today. Next we crossed a large field that has just had a crop planted, presumably winter wheat and while I slithered along the right of way Chase was just having fun as there was no scent or chance of any game. As we dropped down to the river though a rabbit shot up from just ahead of him and his bum hit the deck with no prompting from me. I know technically he doesn't need to sit to flush and often he just stands rigidly but I praise whichever as he is really becoming steady. We then just had a nice 'interesting' walk back to the car as the wind wasn't conducive to getting him hunting. He twice disturbed rabbits and each time he sat without promting  .
Actually the walk back to the car (about half an hour) was as useful training as the hunting practice as I keep interacting with him, I chat to him, stop and check shrubs with him, have a quick recall/cuddle etc etc. All things I have found means he will not automatically be let off lead and run hell for leather wherever he wants. He looks to me as a worthwhile companion and that to me is something I have worked hard on and now am starting to reap the benefits. I did no retrieves on this outing as we are just introducing a new dummy and I am not yet ready to try it in open ground, I did have a couple of partridge I meant to take with me but they were forgotten .
Next walk was Freddy and Brice, Brice is now really scared of meeting other dogs but he managed a whole hours free run with only meeting one dog (two leads on Brice, letting Fred head off the other dog and copious amounts of sausage got us through the incident). I then drove back home to swap dogs................. Final walk was Mugi and Piper, back in the original field and as Mugi is so reliable he did manage to point and produce a pheasant that had remained close to the road. Piper was busy hunting hedges while Mugi hunted the fields. Both dogs are very responsive to me and as neither have any issues I was able to just relax and enjoy them although I have to say Chase's walk was probably the most enjoyable as I can so clearly see how far we have come. |
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| Mugi |
Apart from "The Fight" which I describe in my Strange Boast thread I have been really pleased with an aspect of how Chase is getting on.
I enjoy social walking with my dogs and whether that will ultimately spoil him in a FT context or not it is something I am not giving up. I have done all his training stuff one to one and so when he is out with my other dogs we are 'playing' not hunting etc. This weekend he has been on new ground in Cheshire and Wales and running with known and unknown dogs. He has never run away to do his own thing and he has stayed checking in with me and interacting with the other dogs really nicely. He has recalled when asked and waited his turn to be popped on the lead etc. Today we went out for a training session and he was off doing what I wanted and ranging out well, very good on the whistle and although we had to cut the session short I was pleased. He really seems to understand the difference between work and rereational exercise .
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| Mugi |
First warm game (hen pheasant) for the little one, not seen shot but offered fresh as a short blind with favourable wind at the lakes were we meet for the shoot at the end of the day, it was shot less than half an hour before and would have been handled by one other dog and two humans excluding me.
He was keen, he knew there was something out there although he was a tad distracted - by a piece of plastic . He realised that wasn't his quarry and continued to the bird, picked it up and ran off with it, dropped it, sniffed it, was determined not to come back so we played 'carry the birdie'. He brought it close then snatched it up then we had the blip where he 'ragged' it. I was determined not to get stressed so walked off in the opposite direction and he brought it close again. Eventually he came and sat by me so we had a quiet stroke and I slipped the lead on (over head and birdie) then just left it loose on him so he couldn't run off (partly as the area opens onto a busy road and wasn't secure).
He dropped the bird soon after almost into my hand so he got a stroke and a treat and then he returned to the car. I went back to fetch and examine the bird, it did have a tear on the back but the ribs were intact so I was very pleased. Next step to get him picking up more warm game with the end game plan that he will be shot-over after christmas. A good day for him and also for Mugi - I will now be trying to get him onto warm game as much as possible. |
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| Mugi |
Getting rather excited as it isn't long before I get to see Chase in action in a 'real' situation.
He, Mugi and I will be doing 2 days shooting in the last week of the season. I chatted have chatted my thoughts through with John A and also with Rory and both agree with my gameplan (ok Rory hasn't seen Chase work but he thinks I have a fair plan). I do not want Chase to become so excited that he can't cope which is the reason Mugi is joining us............a) Mugi is a really good influence on Chase and b) if I see Chase becoming too hot he will have a break to come down before he gets to run again and Mugi will get to work a bit. I will start with trying to let Chase work as freely as possible without me interferring, if he does well then great, if he is too impetuous then I will rein him in and possibly even use a trailing line. Retrieves are an issue although his attitude to warm game is much more keen than anything else. So as it is the last week of the season I will not correct him even if he runs in, time enough to work on that during the summer. Best thing of all though is that I will be with guns who know how to shoot over HPR's and really like Brittanys. Having seen some shooting from people that really don't understand how the HPR's work I have gained enough knowledge to understand how invaluable it is to have guns who know what they are looking for! I have learned so much from attending/stewarding at the 4 trials I have been to this year and am really looking forward to seeing how Chase's training has progressed with the ultimate game plan of getting him out competing next season. I also have a few days training lined up in principle for ME (ok Chase needs to be there too ) with Rory, just need to finalise dates when I can get leave and he is available to help.
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| guy |
Good luck Sue. Look forward to running alongside you next year.
Time with Rory will not be wasted. |
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| Mugi |
Something a bit different today .
Chase started Dog Games with his initial 'consultation' visit. http://www.dog-games.co.uk/doggames.htm Now Dog Games is purely fun and with minimal command but in fact the dogs use their brains well and although in some ways they can choose to work or not I know that Fred and Brice come home tired from their short sessions. Initially I had decided I wouldn't take Chase as it gives him choice to do his own thing but as his training has come on so well I have changed my mind and think it will be good for fun bonding. So the assessment is just time for the dog to familiarise itself with the environment and to learn the first game which is recall to name and no additional command (also for the trainers to learn about the dog, its home etc but as two of mine already go this was abbreviated). Chase went into the grass lane as though he owned the place and from the outset he demonstrated how confident he is although as usual he was checking in with me constantly. When it was time to start 'work' Sally decided we would do double recall from the outset so he had to recall to her (he did that first) then me and back again etc. His first recall to Sally was fast and furious and she almost went flying - for power she described him as a mini rottweiler . He aced his assessment and even recalled to me carrying the treat pot he had nicked from Sally . I think he will have fun, especially with the running and jumping games although I do want him to do some of the more thought provoking games on offer once he understands the whole set-up.
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| Mugi |
No game this morning but a long run practising turn whistle, stop whistle and recall.
We did good and he is as ready as he can be for his shotover stuff next week. I am not expecting him to be as good as he was today - I am sure adrenaline will get in the way but as long as he doesn't run amok and totally ignore me I will be happy. |
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| johnhod |
I had Ben out on the shoot yesterday. There's not a lot of birds left now so I was able to let him off lead between drives and on some of the more remote areas, where I'm sent to dog in. There's still a long way to go but he seems to be getting the idea.
Good luck with Chase on the shot over day |
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| Mugi |
Thanks John.
Ben sounds as though he is coming on nicely. I am definitely of the opinion that less is more sometimes and I hope next week we will have to work to find some birds. |
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| Mugi |
Well - things are looking up for the little one.
After beating today we were sat in the pub and the shoot owner was bemoaning a couple of the Pickers Up for not sticking at the job and so missing birds. I thought for a fraction and waded in .
So next season Piper will be beating and at the end of some drives Chase will get the chance to sweep through areas where they know birds came down as a Picking Up dog. The shoot is not ideal for a Brittany picking up under formal circumstances as they want little control and the job done quickly but if I get some opportunity to get him out working on blinds where I will be able to take my time it will be great as I can call the shots with him. It will mean more work for me but the opportunity to get him out on days they are short of Pickers Up will be fantastic. |
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| guy |
Good move.
I have found that rather than just sending the dog to look I get them to help me look - so it is a joint effort. Helps keep them focussed on a smaller area. |
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| doganjo |
That's what I've been doing too - I think that's how Al managed to find that bird and actually hold it - he was hunting closer and going into the hedges with me saying' what ye got there' Otherwise he might have run the length of the hedge and bumped them out.
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| Mugi |
I have done as much of his training as feasible (considering his speed) as a partnership, Bill T advised similar when he first met Chase as it was so obvious that as I am so novice Chase could view me as a hinderence and soon do his own thing. I think we have got it reasonably well now. For a giggle though I can describe the first time Mugi was sent to sweep an area last seaon. End of a drive on Beaters Day and they knew birds were down in woodland with a thickish bramble ground layer. As Mugi has never had directionals for his retrieving by necessity I was with him. Of the 5 downed birds he found 3 - all tucked into brambles. He was quite happy to find them then look at me to go in to fetch them. TG no one on the shoot could see me retrieving the birds which Moo was promptly prepared to carry for me .
This season he has been throwing himself into anything to get the birds and he has gathered up a few on drives despite being on his flexi lead. |
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