CLA Gamefair - REQUEST.

Mugi · CLA Gamefair - REQUEST.

Thank you to those members who have agreed to come and spend some time on the stand at the Game Fair, I will be posting out passes etc as soon as I have photocopied the map so they should be with you mid week.

One other thing to hopefully make out stand "STAND OUT" - if anyone has any high resolution photos they could send me of their dogs either working, training or in competion. We are looking for good photos to clearly show the HPR elements on land on water.

If they could be emailed to me at sueaxtell~AT~msn.com I would be very grateful, we did look at whether we could utilise the photos supplied for Discover Dogs but they are permanently fixed to the boards Richard created so not feasible.

Thanks All
Sue

Annie as admin

I went to the Scottish Fair with Allez on Friday - I handed out 10 information sheets to people who were genuinely interested in the breed. It cost me £13 to get in but I was happy to hand over my hard earned pension as the Game Conservancy Council are in worse straits than I am. Rolling Eyes

We had a great time but there was no Gundog breed parade, adn this year no gundog tent as ther has been in pervious years
Annie

Mugi

Thanks for the pictures, I think we should be able to get a great stand sorted and I plan to try to ensure some at least can remain as a semi-permanent feature so we can re-use it at similar events.

One further ask - we would love to use some of the pics from the website - thinking mostly about the training day stuff. Who owns copywrite and would people be happy if I asked Donald to supply me with some of the images? I am doing a mix of big pics with a background of smaller size photos so even relatively small jpeg stuff will be suitable for my plans.

(OMG - the power/responsibility Laughing

, I hope I don't fall flat on my face Confused

).

johnhod

Copyright remains with the person who took the photos, so mainly Jessica and Fiona I suppose.

Annie as admin

Yup, and Guy, and me, and one or two others - go ahead - they are already in the public domain and I can't see anyone having a problem with them being used.

guy

I think if you wish to dot Is and cross Ts you should credit the photographer.
The fact they are in the public domain does not release copyrights to anyone.

The way around may be to list somewhere discreet the photographers who contributed.

For those photographs I took - i am happy to donate them to the Brittany Club for the non commercial promotion of the breed and the activities of the club. If my photographs are to be used for financial gain then please ask again and a decision can be made on a picture by picture basis.

Annie as admin

Well as far as I am concerned anyone who wants to use my pictures can go ahead - they're usually of my own dogs so I'm quite happy for as many people as possible to see them. If anyone can make money out of them they are very welcome. I don't want any credit. I believe if photos are taken for the Club they then should be used for Club purposes. I don't believe anyone should exercise copyright rights over them legal or not. I'm talking morally here. I believe Fiona took the photos on behalf of Simon as he couldn't attend and he is the Club photographer.
JMHO
Annie

guy

Copyright in photographs remains with the photographer and is 'assigned the moment the work is created'. The only exception is if the photographer is an employee where contract law will override copyright law.

Copying text and photographs from a web site without the specific permission of the copyright owner is an infringement as is passing off that work as ones own without acknowledgment.

I reassert my rights over my material except where stated above.

johnhod

IMHO Sue was right to ask for permission to use photos and anyone who took photos has the right to withhold their permission or to offer them for sale after all the offer does not have to be taken up. As Annie and Guy are both happy for their pics to be used FOC, in this instance, it is not an issue.

This does, however, raise the question of whether people should be allowed to take photos of other people or their dogs at club events and put them into the public domain, without first having obtained a release. Personnally I don't have a problem with it (unless the photographer intends making money from my or my dogs image(s)) but I can appreciate that others (for a variety of reasons) may not wish their image to be freely available.

guy

My apologies if I have come across as a bit 'heavy' but I do have pictures in magazines, on book covers, in books and even a museum postcard - all on public sale.

Mugi

You didn't come over heavy Guy - I have been on the sidelines of an argument around photo copywrite in the past and I know it can be emotive.

My feeling is I will use no images unless give explicit permission and all images will only be used to promote the breed, create a display etc.

Annie as admin

OK, I'm sorry, maybe it's just that my photo-taking capabilities are not of the quality required for money to be made out of them either by me or anyone else. I bow to your superior knowledge, but as I said I don't care what anyone does with my photos. Let's face it, what costs are there involved in digital photography nowadays? Not a lot - cameras are cheap, there's no longer any developing costs, all you need is a pc with standard software. Maybe I'm too philanthropic Rolling Eyes

And maybe that's why I'm poor. Embarassed

I'd rather the Club had any benefit than me personally. Embarassed

I just had a thought after browsing the HPR forum where there are loads of photos of other people and dogs taken by folk on a training day.(and on here too) Does that mean that if someone takes photos of you and your dog you don't own them - the photographer owns them, even if you don't know who the photographer is? That is just plain stupid. Rolling Eyes

In Africa, the Masai tribe have to be paid for you to take a photo of them, some tribes will attack anyone with a camera as they believe you are stealing a bit of their soul if you photograph them. Exclamation

Annie

johnhod

The law on this can be quite complicated, so I don't claim to understand it particularly well but my interpretation is that you can take a photo of anyone in a public place and there is little they can do about it. In a place that is not open to the public, and in this I'd count training sessions and shows, you need the persons permission to take the photograph (unless they are incidental to another subject (as in you happened to be walking across the background when a shot is being taken). You could put a disclaimer into the application form for the event stating that photographs would be taken and it is up to the individual to inform the photographer that they did not wish to be included in any pictures.

That's my interpretaion but I'm sure Guy, Simon and the other serious photographers will be able to explain it better.

Dave A

Hi Sue

I am looking forward to meeting you at the stand and hopefully talking to a few shooting folk who may be considering the breed. If i can find any suitable pics i will forward them to you.

Dave A

guy

My daughter is a manager at a health and fitness centre. When they do parties for children, the children wear a coloured wristband if the parents don't wish them to be photographed and the authorised photographer has to wear a coloured band as well.

I think, but would stand corrected it is not the subject of the photograph but the 'composition' that is being protected.

Mugi

johnhod

There are a whole different set of rules relating to photographing children, to do with child protection issues rather than privicy, though recently JP Rowling failed in an attempt to stop pictures of her child being published, as they were taken in a public place

Liz

The whole business of photographing children is a minefield. Bill does a lot of workshops with schools and youth organisations and it's a matter of getting permissions from schools, from parents, etc, etc, total nightmare trying to get it organised. Such a shame as the kids really love having a DVD of their work to take home to show the family.

Annie as admin

I wonder if we are becoming too over-protective of ourselves. An awful lot of fun seems to have been taken away from things by all these legal regulations. I can see the point of copyright on words actually written by someone - I have writen hundreds of papers and articles and put a lot of time, thought, educational expertise, and knowledge into them, and expect them to be subject to copyright, it isn't a nice feeling to recognise your own words with someone else getting the credit, and when photography was complicated too - I used to develop and print my own work and the chemicals and paper were extrememly expensive. But as I say it is so easy to bea photographer these days with even the basic camera and a PC, and it is so easy to scan, alter slightly, and print. Hmm.................. I'm really not convinced about how copyright can work on photos nowadays.
Annie

eddieh

I’m not sure if I’ve misunderstood what you mean Annie. If you mean that the ease with which people can manipulate a digital image makes it difficult to keep track of the owner of the copyright when it is extensively altered or used in part, I would possibly agree although, If you keep your original image, it is possible to prove that the image was produced by your camera.
I you mean that digital photography and the use of image editing software are less deserving of copyright protection, I think it is still not possible to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. There are certain people on this forum who make me pig sick with their pin sharp shots of action dog Evil or Very Mad

. It still takes a good knowledge of photography to consistently get good results and not miss unrepeatable opportunities. I would possibly argue that the digital medium enables people to fulfil their potential more quickly as they have instant access to their images and can be made aware of and correct their mistakes (in other words, learn) more quickly. I believe it is true that more manipulation is possible but for most straightforward photography, the same adjustments (Dodging, burning, cropping, exposure adjustment, colour balance, even spotting in a sense) are made whether we are talking film or digital

Annie as admin

Aha, I detect another potential Club Asset? Another expert? Watch out, Eddie, you will be roped in quicker than you can say Snap it! Just a happy snapper, myself!
Annie

eddieh

What possible use could you have for a b*%%$!^ expert

guy

An ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure Laughing

eddieh

Does that mean I am now a relaxed drip?

eddieh

I appear to be Jan's stand in while she's away. My edit button has b^&&£*" off

Annie as admin

Weel, it wisnae me Rolling Eyes