| Archive for The Brittany Forum For all friends of the versatile Brittany |
| Pippa's Pack |
Coat care advice pleaseHas anyone got any advice/tips on the best way to care for the coat of a spayed bitch/neutered dog? Obviously the operation disrupts the hormone balance but as far as I am aware there is no HRT available for dogs!
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| highclare |
Hi,
Can I help. As a groomer I get alots of Spayed/Castrated dogs in my palour. If you try to keep it brushed you will be doing that all day every day. If you can find a good groomer then ask them to clip the body of your Brit but leaving the under feathers and the leg feathers. with a short coat it will make it easy for you. The groomer should NOT clip the coat with anything less than a 5 clipper blade. If you get your Brit groomed then don't be afraid to instructed the groomer as she/he may have never had a Brit in the palour before. Gill and that Mabeleem. |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
If you want her clipped Gay I could come up and do it for you.....just to keep my hand in 
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| Pippa's Pack |
Thanks for the advice Gill and Jan - I do have a groomer who has always made as good job of Chloe who was spayed when she was only 18 months old. Unfortunately she has been ill lately but has given me an appointment for this weekend.
I just wondered if there was any specific supplement that could be given to help with coat condition. I already use Yumega and Salmon oil. |
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| highclare |
You already give the best to your dog, the only advice I would give there is always give the supplements a break for one month in six so that the body dosn't get to use to them.
Hope that helps. Gill and that horrible Mabeleen who at is moment is sitting on my head. |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
Don't give oil during very hot weather either. | ||
| Liz |
Gill, I would welcome any advice on the best way to deal with Rosie's coat - 12 1/2 years old, speyed. The problem is an overgrowth of the undercoat on the sides and legs. This is very fine and difficult to scissor or clip as it just jumps away from the blades! At her age I'm really only interested in keeping her neat and tidy. I keep the feathering on her front legs right down again to keep her as clean as possible. She always had a fine whispy coat.
I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. Sorry for the hijack, Gay! |
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| highclare |
OK Guy,
You have touched on the part of grooming I wanted to demonstrait at the club weekend but was cut short. If you want to bring the lovely Rosie to the next club show and I will show you what is needed to keep her neat and tidy. Only if you want? Gill and that Mabeleen |
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| Pippa's Pack |
Hi Gill,
I have taken two of my girls to the groomer today. I told her what you advised and she used the clipper on Chloe. Chloe is now 13.5 years and does not really relish too much grooming attention. Using the clipper meant that the procedure was much quicker - better for her. I am pleased with the result. She had not been trimmed for a while and her coat was badly in need of some attention. I think she looks fine - her coat shines and the colour seems to show clearer (she is black and white roan). She no longer goes in the show ring so just wants to look smart and tidy. Liz, I think Rosie's coat may be similar and this may well suit her. Do hope you are feeling better. |
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| Patricia |
Gay, I have Judy Luckas's 2 neutered males as well as another spayed Brittany to groom. I clip them too, not so that they look shaved but it certainly takes all that fuzzy and dead coat off.
In the summer they are much happier for it, and they can still look like Brittanys!
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| Liz |
Well today I took the bull by the horns and clippered 4 months growth off Rosie! There was nearly enough coat to make another Brittany  Not the most elegant clip, but at least she'll keep cleaner for a while.
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| sallie |
Was that an all over clip using grade 5? or did you do Rosies feathering (ears, front legs, back legs) with thinning scissors? | ||
| dakotawinters |
A wonderful tool.Hey guys not sure if it exists over there... but I use a furminator on my dogs. Its insane how much fur comes off of them. It takes the nasty undercoat that comes off and goes on your furniture floors etc.I think I would die without mine, they are a little pricey but totally worth it. |
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| Pippa's Pack |
Re: A wonderful tool.
What exactly is it Can you post a picture please
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| dakotawinters |
Grooming tool.http://www.furminator.com/There is a video and pictures of what it looks like. I have a small one, as my one brittany is quite small. Works like a hot~damn. 
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| gundoglover |
I've used the furminator too. It does remove all the undercoat if you use it enough. Of course, for the show ring you do want to leave some undercoat for the judge to find. And you probably don't want to strip all the undercoat out in the winter. But it is very efficient for dealing with springtime when they are blowing their coats. | ||
| highclare |
Hi,
The tool that is for raking out thick dead hair is called a King comb and is sold on most of the grooming trade stalls at Crufts. It is very expecsive and if you choose one please becareful you get the one for your dogs coat. There are 2 types really one is a fixed clipper blade the other is made up of very small sharp blades. Now Brittanys don't on the whole have the same coats as a Golden Retrevers and yes it dose get rid of the dead coat. Be warned it can in the wrong hands cut parts of your dog you don't want. I use all these tools in my grooming palour so have a good knowlage of them. DO NOT USE THIS TOOL ON YOUR SHOW DOGS!!! Gill and the well groomed Mabeleen |
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| Patricia |
I agree Gill, totally 
Funny, I never seem to have this problem of undercoat. A good brush every now and again, followed by a comb through is enough for all my Brittanys, even the Black. A quick trimming with thinning scissors for trousers, ears and we're done! ( and they are shown here and in France) But...the picture shown is of the "American " type, and they may have a different coat to the French? |
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| Des O'Neile |
?????????????????????????????? Why? |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
Something to do with hot weather causing the oil to produce an adverse effect in the body.....I do know this and cannot remember exactly what it was. Possibly to do with the accumulation of vitamin D and the body not being able to excrete it as well in hot weather. I will do some research and get back to you. | ||
| gundoglover |
I have both a Mars Coat King (which does have a razor) and a furminator (which doesn't). The coat king can cut the coat so I use it around the neck area and back of the hocks where it doesn't matter if it cuts the coat. I am told in the hands of an expert it does not cut the coat, but I'm not an expert.
The furminator is more like a very fine tooth comb that can be used like a rake. It works like the standard fine tooth comb but is easier on the hands because of the angle at which you hold it. It is useful when there is a lot of undercoat coming out. I suspect that the american style and french style brittanys have similar coats. In Australia we have dogs from both countries. The differences seem to be in the extent of the show trimming. I'm willing to be corrected on this. The amount that a dog sheds probably has more to do with the climate, dropping more coat where the weather becomes much hotter. I think that in Europe when the temperature gets over 30C for a few days in a row, it is considered a heatwave, but here it would need to be in the high 30'sC or 40C. So, it would be expected that dogs here would shed more to cope with the hotter temperatures. |
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| Liz |
I just went over Rosie with the clippers on the lower part of the sides and on the legs. The top of her back was OK, but she had an overgrowth of undercoat about 4" long on her sides. I did the feathering on the front legs with the clippers as well as that had got to about 3" long as well, then tidied up with scissors (poor neglected girl  ). The hardest part was the soft undercoat that comes through on the legs - I did that with thinning scissors in the end as the clippers just slid over the top of it.
I always do the ears with scissors - trim back to the edge of the ear then thin the hair on the ear itself - she's got big ears and a small head so they can look too heavy for her. I'm just wanting her to look clean and tidy - at her age she'll never be seen in the ring again (except at the occasional charity show in veteran classes  ).
I find the Mars Coat King great for tidying behind the ears where it can get matted, and good for stripping out dead hair. I'm no great shakes as a groomer, just try and keep my own dogs looking tidy. Sherry and Ozzy don't need too much done, and Bliss wasn't too bad, but Rosie is a nightmare! |
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| dakotawinters |
judgeswhy would a judge want to find undercoat?I wonder if my dogs have more of an undercoat as I am from Canada.... and its been a very cold winter this year??? |
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| Wyngold |
I have not found that American dogs vs French dogs have different coats per se.
But, there can be differences between lines of dogs... ie. some American lines have firm coarse coats with low density, some have wavey coarse dense coats more like many French, and then there are a few with what some of us call wooley coats....probably throwbacks to spaniel influences, maybe Pont Audmer. What I like/prefer is a hard coat that is dense (many hairs /inch) that is not porus or with rough cuticles. This coat never collects cheat grass, and sheds mud and dirt easily. Livers will often have a softer textured coat, and seem to grow an undercoat in winter. Blacks seem smoother textured and often longer. Oranges seem pretty consistent middle of the road to me. The Furminator is like using a #10 blade to "card" the coat, ie like just aobut any standard shedding blade or even a good stiff rubber curry. The Mars Coat King w/ 20-22 blade is ideal for debulking dogs that have been shaved, neutered, spayed, or have such a dense coat that needs to be taken down a bit. Most regular brusshig on a "good" coat does not require much more that thinners, and a pinning of a towel. The trend in AKC shows have been to over do grooming which started in the late 1960's in a few dogs that had way too much coat. The show handlers decided that it was quicker to shave. Hence the start of clippering necks thanks to dear old Sequani Dana McDuff who started to win big after being clippered. Since then American dogs have been routinely clipped thanks to professional handlers that wanted an easy fix to groom instead of the old standard hand blending which is still the norm in Europe for the breed. |
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| gundoglover |
Re: judges
Although undercoat is not mentioned in the breed standard for the Brittany, it is in the breed standard of most other gundogs (sporting breeds). So, the judges here routinely look for undercoat and expect to find some. Wyngold, I know what you mean by the coat that sheds grass seeds, mud, etc. I have been blessed with Brittany coats that shed these easily, although the tar from pinesap still sticks and needs eucalyptus oil to soften it before combing out. I have also noticed that the liver hairs are a different texture to the white hairs and grow more slowly. |
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| highclare |
I will tell you a funny story about different colour coats (not funny at the time).
Each coat colour has a completly different genetic makeup, if you have a red and white dog then the red and the white hairs are not the same at all, I know you are going to say of course there not the same one is red and one is white!! If you have a mixed colour coat like some tricolour brits I see that coat is again made up of different genetic hair colours. The reason I know this is because one of my Welsh springers got a white coat viruis which made all her white coat fall out, all of it. The red coat was completely in tacted. She did look very funny and wasn't really ill either. She only partly recovered from that problem. I took her to the Animal health trust and it was there I was shown though a microscope the different genetic makeups of each colour coat. Going back to trimming and looking after coats when I wash my welsh for shows I use a different shampoo for the red and another for the white. If I over trim the red coat I damage it but the white coat takes as much trimming as I like. In my grooming palour I can clip the back of a black cocker and it comes back looking the same colour, if I was to do that to a Welsh or an Irish setter they would in time go blound. With Mabeleen who is an orange and white she dosn't have too much orange ticking on her white coat so I can slightly trim that but I have to becareful never to over trim her red coat. Brits that have alot of orange ticking can be quite difficult to trim but then not every one cares about trimming?? |
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| highclare |
Sorry I didn't put my sig.
From Gill and that Mabeleen |
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| Patricia |
Well I think that is the beauty of Brittanys, little trimming and coat care. Some don't even have a bath before a show. A good swim in the river and you're good to go!
In Britain the judges will not look for undercoat, but the top coat, felt on the withers often, which should be harsh to the touch. Often said" goat like". When I clip one( always neutered) I make sure I leave all the underneath hair, some trousers and fringing so they don't look " clipped". |
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| johnhod |
You don't need to put your sig each time you post Gill. if you click on profile above then scroll about half way down the page that comes up you'll see a signature box. Any message you type in there will appear at the end of each posting you make |
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| gundoglover |
Highclare,
What an interesting story about the coat-colour-specific virus! It must have made you scratch your head at first. Would you mind elaborating on how you use different shampoos on the white & the coloured hairs, please? Patricia, Thankyou for the information on the judge checking the texture of the coat at the withers. I had assumed the judges were checking for undercoat. I must remember not to overdo the conditioner so the coat remains "goat-like"! |
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| highclare |
Hi again,
The difference between humans and dogs is of course dogs are covered with hair, some thick some thin, some single coats some double coats, some silky some wirey ect. In humans the PH levels are 5/5 in dogs because they have coats all over there PH is much more sensitive because the skin is covered with hair (sorry if you feel I am preaching to the people who already know this). Anyway the dogs shampoo market is really poor so most of us resort to choosing a human shampoo and that is when things CAN go wrong. As Patricia said put your dog in the river and it is good to go, well if that's what floats your boat well fine but not me. I respect the judges enough to put a well groomed and very clean dog for them to put there hands on. There is nothing worse than to judge 150 Welsh with dirty coats. Back to shampoos, the best shampoo I use on dirty white feathers is Fairy Liquid, then a cheap conditioner. On the colour part of the coat do not use Farey as it will strip the coat of ALL the oils. The best type of shampoo is for Damaged of coloured hair but only a cheap brand. I never wash the coat the day befor a show usual Mabeleen get washed 3/4 days before as a Brits coat should have a slightly goaty feel to the touch. I hope that helps to answers your question on shampoos? Gill and a going to be washed next wednesday Mabeleen |
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| Patricia |
Don't take me too seriously Gill 
Many Brits aren't washed and that is certainly the case in France! Some seem to have a thing about taking ALL the hair off the ear , which I don't like -I prefer a little hair left on the top half of the ear, it makes them look alert ) And...if your dog has pronounced zygomatic arches, taking all the hair off will make them look...startled.
As for bathing, I always bath my Brittanys 3 days before and brush leaving to dry naturally. I use Simpsons shampoos and have always got on well with them. I don't use conditioners on my dogs. The Black hair -being longer on some, and certainly Baileys- get lightly stripped to even it with the white hair. I take the hair between the toes off too. Some leave trousers to float, I do it the French way and leave 2 or 3 ins, and shorten under the tail( Georgine showed me that bit) I thin out the throat a bit with thinning scissors. the whole thing must not look cut and must remain looking natural, enhancing the cobbiness. |
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| Wyngold |
A Product that was made in UK has been imported by some Brittany folks and promoted in many of the top show dogs...
They call the product here "Isle of Dogs" Dogs with skin problems seem to do great on it. Base is Evening Primrose Oil and the product that helps to heal and grow coat is the one based in Royal Jelly. I love the products but they are very expensive....so use other stuff until I hit a problem coat or dog. On my Liver dogs I use a horse spray after baths called Equis which has a non-buildup or waxy additive for a good sun screen. |
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| highclare |
Patricia I wasn't taking YOU seriously as your dogs are always beautifuly presented for show but I think there are some exibitors who do excactly what you said the river being the last place there dogs saw water.
I, like you hate over trimmed dogs in any breed but I do like to see balance and when a Brit has hair coming out from all parts and the poor judge is left fumberling about in throat hair to find the true lines of the dogs then the prize will not be yours that day!! I think the breed specialist puts up with hair and calls it part of being a Brittany well that is fine at home or in the working field but I THINK it can get in the way of the outline of the lovely dog a Brit is in the show ring. Of course over trimming can make the dog look berfeft of bone too long a neck and if all the hair comes off the ears I think it can completly take away that alert expression that a Brit should have. This is only my oppinion based on showing many different breeds of dogs over 30 years. Gill and that Mabeleen |
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| eddieh |
There was a time when I would have given anything with that name a very wide berth. Come to to think of it I still would, but for different reasons.
Gill, can I take it that you treat roan as colour when washing dogs? I'm intrigued by the thought of using different shampoos for different colour areas. |
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| Patricia |
Interesting post Gill...I tend to agree and as groomers, whenever we see a dog looking a mess think" if I could get my hands on it...  "
I too hate a Brittany full of hair and looking unkempt, it does not make the best of its conformation if it is a good dog. I don't care for long floating trousers. We have an ultra short( or should) dog, and trimming betters it. In a shorter legged Brittany, it may be good to take off some lenght of hair underneath, making it look " taller" or vice versas if a dog is more rangy, leave the hair, giving the impression of " more body". I prefer thinning scissors. The art of grooming is that it d does not look" cut" Yes, Gill? |
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| guy |
have you googled 'isle of Dogs' ? |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
With reference to the use of Fairy Liquid as a shampoo. You should be aware that this and any similar product is a harsh detergent and as such can strip the oils from the coat, they are not formulated for use as shampoos in dogs or humans. There are enough products suitable for use on hair [dogs and our own] without using washing up liquid. They could also cause problems in a dog/human with sensitive skin. | ||
| Mugi |
I have a number of different shampoos due to the different coats of my gang.
Fred the WSS and Piper get bathed with a Sensitive Shampoo as Fred in particular suffers from Pyoderma at the drop of a hat - saying that I am not bathing Piper at the mo as he is an outdoor dog. Mugi gets bathed with a medicated shampoo as infrequently as possible as he looses oils very quickly but he sometimes gets a dry flaky skin. Brice - well when I have to bathe him I use Wahl Dirty Beast and it works wonders - keeps the harsh deerhound coat texture but it does shift dirt so gets rid of the smell. Chase has two shampoos. Sometimes I use Dirty Beast on him all over and othertimes I use a white shampoo on the appropriate bits and plain water on his black. I only bath when he is stained (I have no idea where he lies that can stain his fur so badly) or when I woud be embarrassed to have anyone run hands over him. Trimming, Moo has had a fairly drastic trim as he was looking whispy. Much nicer now. Chase - err. I trim ears, feet, trousers and I wish I could get my head round trimming his stumpy as nicely as Gill did  .
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| gundoglover |
Thankyou to you everyone for sharing their ideas about bathing, especially the different treatment for the white and coloured hairs. It is certainly food for thought. I may think about doing that for the special shows. | ||
| Victoria |
I should't be making this admission but the river has been the recourse for me re washing dog once or twice... ...he got his title after a natural bathe!!!!
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| eddieh |
Bathing in the water found on our walks would probably ensure a lot of space to ourselves at a show. Wouldn't it Gay. | ||
| Victoria |
like this, Eddie!! |
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| eddieh |
That looks like a good source of drinking water in comparison. I think the only thing which keeps the smell in is the thick layer of duck weed and if your dog has any white on it there's a good chance it won't when it comes out. | ||
| highclare |
Hi,
Well I am impressed that there are people out there who DO care about what there dogs look like and how clean they should be for showing. I have to say Mabeleen NEVER gets washed if she is not going to shows. She has had a long rest since LKA last year so has only seen the muddy puddles she fines on a walk. Patricia your post was completly right and very well said, trimming should only be done to make the dog look balanced and not to see who can trim the best. We are lucky in Brits the little coat they have is easy to keep clean and trimmed. You try trimming a full coated male Welsh, I used to show a dog called Sh Ch Highclare Bosons Mate and if taking him to cruft's it would take me about 15 hours over 3 weeks to get him ready. once he got 8 CC I gave up as I hated the hours it took me. As far as usuing Fairy Liqiquid is concerned it is very safe to use and I have put it on every dog I can in my palour for the last 30 years and NEVER had a problem, the reason is that the dogs coat (not skin) can take any sort of hash abraceive liquied, because the coat is a harsh warm protector and is desined to do excactly that protect the skin. Of course if you are putting fairy on be sure you rince if ALL off or you may have problems in the long term. Of course Fairy is for washing dishes but it is great for getting all the dirt and old oils off the dogs coat. Just as a little trick I use COMFORT on the feathers as it stops static and smells nice. This will make your eyes water but I also put neat Peroxide well 9% Peroxide on white coat feathers that are yellow with pee and it never hurts the coat. I have to say please do not do this on Brits bacause you will turn any roaning yellow. Talking of roaning if the roaning is of a heavy type then yes treat it as orange coat, if it is light roaning then use a little Fairy with a little red coat shampoo together and that works a treat! Gill and that Mabeleen who looks a mess. |
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| Ghilliegumdrop |
Well being as my husband is the person [chemist] that did the formulations for Proctor and Gamble re Fairy Liquid and other detergents on the market I think that he should know what he is talking about, and to be honest, if he says they are too harsh for coats/hair then I, for one, will not be using them. Why, when there are so many products made just for dogs, do you want to use something made for washing dishes and putting in the washing machine
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| Patricia |
Gill, do you mean using Fairy on legs and trousers? Stained?
I used Fairy on horses tails mainly...for greys, finish with a " blue bag". I don''t think you find those any more? I like Mink oil shampoo from Simpsons,but then again, it is one I use quite a bit. I try not to bath the top of the back of the Brittanys not to soften it if I have to bath the dog close to a show. We live on the farm, and big " No No" bringing muddy dogs! Otherwise a good general purpose. If sensitive skin, baby shampoo! |
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| highclare |
Spot on Patricia.
I am not telling people to use Fairy I am just advicing you what I use and what I have found to be the best for dogs coats over the many many years I have been grooming and showing. People have to do what they think is right for there dogs, I couldn't care less. Passing on tips for grooming and shampooing dogs is what this forum is for and I bow to the chemist person but as I have said I have never had one promlem with useing Fairy in all the years of grooming. Yes the fairy I use is for the feathers and NOT on the colour part of the coat as it will dry the coat out and can make the coat go scurfy. Alot of people do not wash the backs of there dogs as in the brits it is important that the true texture of the coat is maintained for both the dog and the judge. (There is a difference between goaty texture and plain dirt!) I will tell you a funny story which some have heard. I was judging an exemption show (companion show). I looked across the ring and there was a young Irish Setter and it looked a funny colour, when I got to it and put my hands on it it was sticky and yellow, I asked the exibitor what had she put on her dogs coat, she proudly anounced egg, I said egg she said well my breeder said that egg was good for the coat I said in her ear, I think your breeder meant that the egg was to go in the dog not on the dog. We both laughed but that same girl continued to show Irish Setters and had 2 champions but didn't use egg ON the coat again. Gill with no egg on Mabeleens coat |
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| Patricia |
And what would you use for wet " pink" feet? who usually are OK in summer? | ||
| highclare |
OK Patricia, It depends why they are pink? is it because the feet are being chewed so go pink though siliver on the feet, or is it where the dog has been exercised. If it is licking it could be started be field mites and a dose of Frontline directly on and between the feet may stop the licking and chewing. If it is where the dog gets exercised then 1 change the walks and 2 wash the feet in a mixture of vinigar and warm water every time the dog comes in for a walk (qiute difficult on a farm).
In Welsh they get pink feet though stress and to much wheat in there diet. I once breed a litter that all the pups in the litter chewed there feet all the time. I never used the dogs at stud and only one bitch had pups, not mine but she passed the art of sucking feet on to her pups. So pink feet could be a big subject and not even the experts have a definitive view on it. Its a bit like why do dogs eat there own poo no one really knows but there are loads of iders out there to why? Gill and Mabeleen who will if I am not looking eat her poo Uck! |
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| Pippa's Pack |
Totally unrelated but similar story. One of our dotors gave a mother a suppository for her child. The next time the mother saw the doctor she told him that the child hated 'that tablet' even though she had crushed it up in jam because it was much too big for her to swallow: 
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| Wyngold |
Eggs...
Just a cautionary note.... Egg yolk is great for the dog to eat raw, but the white should be lightly cooked. There is a nasty enzyme in the whites that destroys absorption of B vitamins. There are many cases of dogs who have gotten raw eggs with raw whites that loose coat and develope skin problems from vit. B deficiency. So be aware.... |
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| doganjo |
Altogether everyone! In tune, please!
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| eddieh |
No. Like this 
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| Victoria |
Oh, I see what you mean!!!!! | ||
| eddieh |
And still they drink it
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| Pippa's Pack |
Bella and Soufee drink it AND paddle in it
Not quite as bad as one of our son's working cockers - she leaps straight into it - sometimes we have to scramble down to help her out. When we take her for a walk we put her on the lead when we get close to the dyke. |
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| doganjo |
YUK, that looks disgusting - what on earth is in it? | ||
| Ghilliegumdrop |
Green algae otherwise known as SCUM 
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| eddieh |
Merlin will have fun in there
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| eddieh |
Loch Mess I suppose
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