cob

guy · cob

I would like to start a thread about understanding the nature of 'cob' so many people I talk to seem to interpret it as chest volume and depth. There is so much more to it than that.
Pouchain for instance in L'Epagneul Breton points out it is cob as in swan not as in clay building material.

Can I invite contributions about the points to appreciate in 'cob'

The pictures of the prize winning show horses are reproduced with the kind and express permission of the CEB; from their 100 year anniversary book.

Ghilliegumdrop

Big Bottoms Exclamation

Victoria

Those horses are truly magnificant.
Cobbiness to me gives a suggestion of strength, energy, vitality and hardiness. The Manx, who should be cobby, is noted for their strength; the Breton, although a small dog, is extremely strong and very hard (physically). (It often occurs to me how akin the Manxie and the Breton are for they both share that collected gait!!) The bones are not flat and flinty, but full and round but in no way coarse. The squareness of the overall conformation also contributes to the cobbiness. The musculature over those rounded bones bulk up the sense of cobbiness. While the Breton is often called 'rustic', the cobbiness does not deter the appreciation of the beauty of the dog...the chiselled face draped with high set ears and THOSE eyes is exquisite.

doganjo

A number of UK dogs do not have this cobby look - lack of rounded ribcage, lack of rounded bottoms, lack of bone.

Patricia

Absolutely Anne...I have owned Cob horses for many years.
I went to the Haras de St Lo to look at the Postier Breton( mail carriages), I would really like to own a Breton Cob, as I don't like skinny horses or dogs Confused

Cob: rounded, powerful, broad chest, good bone, very broad croup, short loin, rounded body.
Curvy Laughing

But...retaining elegance with quality chiselled head, good lenght of leg. For those who have the Golden Oldies Calendar, have a good look at Puk des Pigenettes. Beautiful dog with that cobby body and long legs.
I can see Anne 's dogs from Germany have those legs! Razz

That is my interpretation. Each year I take another good look at the Nationale at top specimens and that sticks in your mind.
Though there is rubbish too, the top dogs are, like Guy says, to die for... Wink

doganjo

My Brett was a son of Puk des Pigenettes - trouble was................ his legs grew Rolling Eyes

, and grew Rolling Eyes

- too long Rolling Eyes

Victoria

Guy, please give us your interpretation of cob. It just shows you how UTTERLY TRULY versatile the Breton is (they never fail to impress with their contradictions!!!! i.e loving and kind at home; malicious and persistent in the field)...cob as opposed to racehorse/greyhound etc does not generally give an impression of speed; yet look how fast our cobby little dogs are.

guy

for what it is worth

Cob – my take on it as an amateur.

Cob is unashamed, unleashed, power.
Cob is in swan but not in clay.
Cob is where strength and function meet.
Cob is not brittle elegance.
Cob is 'all dog'.
Cob is curvaceous beauty– as in Hogarth's 'line of beauty'.
Cob is 'presence'
Cob is 'set in it's landscape' – of field and wood not town and boudoir.
Cob is balanced .

Whilst cob is a whole it is made of parts, to achieve full effect each of these must relate to the others in a harmonious and rational way; form after all follows function.

The essence of cob is power – power needs fuel, stained power lots of fuel so the first component of cob is chest – chest volume, fore chest, depth and width but it does not stop there
sustained power comes from muscle volume and tone – not that of a body builder or weight lifter but more a middle distance runner – back to Hogarth it is rounded muscle, defined but not bulging.
Muscles connect to a lever system. A lever system that can be geared to move large distances with great speed or short distances with great strength – you won't see a whippet dig like a dachshund. Cob is where most strength meets most speed

Cob joins the front of the dog with the back with the least waste but still lithe and alive.

Finally when you have put all these elements together apply 'Ockham's Razor' to pare away anything not absolutely necessary; you will end up with the absolute maximum within the absolute minimum.

Cob is balanced; define a size and all else follows – height dictates the chest which dictates the rump and the length; the size of bone follows with the space under relating to the volume above (just look at the paintings by Stubbs), strength of neck and size of head just have to follow.

Makes me think – add a tail and then? Will weight have to be taken off the rump and added to the shoulders or neck to keep the dog 'visually' balanced. If so then a heavier neck will need a heavier head.. Bigger shoulders and the dog's action will change as more power is delivered through the front end. Or keep the rump as it is and extend the neck? Whichever the tail's inertia is going to add sway to the rump where no sway existed...... hmmmm

Patricia

very poetic Guy Very Happy

ID Girl

[quote="guy"].
Cob is curvaceous beauty– as in Hogarth's 'line of beauty'.

Now I know how to discribe myself Very Happy

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Victoria

Guy, that about sums it up beautifully. I want to know why historically the breed was docked. These actions do not come from whimsy. I will never reconcile myself to a full tailed Breton, sorry!!

doganjo

The breed started from Les Fougeres to my understanding, which was a 'high sprited, naturally short tailed hunting dog' I imagine that is where the bobtail gene came from
Annie

guy

Brittany -

Body Bone Bum Brevity Brains Beauty

Victoria

guy

Brave is good

perhaps bright eyed - but that introduces a non B word.

Bouncy sprigs to mind - but 'Buoyant' may be better

Victoria

Bouyant, yes!!! Beloved, beau, bijou, bienveillant, bute?

guy

whilst they are beloved - it does not define the breed - but as they are 'loving' we could have a word starting with B to cover that bit.

guy

you edited your post Laughing

Victoria

Hehehehehehehhehehe!!!!!! Beatific?

doganjo

Might I point out you are digressing. If you want adjectives for teh breed why not start up a new thread.

As to Cob and tails - they have to go hand in hand. (pun Laughing

) I can't remember when they started docking, perhaps Patricia can help?
Annie

guy

Patricia

" I can't remember when they started docking, perhaps Patricia can help? "

Yes I can! Very Happy

I have looked up the subject in my " Gaston Pouchain " book, which is till very much more simple and easier to refer top than aother books. So I will translate for Victoria.
The tail left naturally could be from nothing to about 10 cms. A referendum in 1933 decided to stop the natural bob and include the docking of otherwise excellent subjects.
"In 1932, I judged a remarkable dog in a trial who came from Mieur Mege. He was ch in the field. But in the shows, he was eliminated regularly because, so they say, he had a docked tail.
We approached Kermadec & Lessard and discussed this case. At the time the judges were looking for " a wheat grain" at the end of the tail. That, they thought, proved without doubt they were tailless. But...all who know how to dock, could create " this wheat grain" by squashing down the last vertabrae with pincers. You could then cheat!
And I always thought it was deplorable to select a dog on the tail criteria, a gundog needing his nose before anything else.
No one wanted the responsabilty to decide about the tail. 2 dogs were presented to a judge who was asked to find the bob tail. He picked the docked one! There was therefore no way of knowing. A referendum was therefore called and by 234 against 14, in 1932, the word" naturally taiiless" was taken off the standard.

Fo those who want to know when the Black colour was introduced in the standard, it was 1956.

I have an imported bitch myself, a friend came to check her" grain of wheat" at the end of her tail. She could not find it!!!
Wink

Hope you found the Gaston Pouchain explanation of interest. Razz

Patricia

yarak

First of all sorry to be going backwards on this thread, but have had my mother ill and not been able to respond recently.
What beautiful pictures Guy, I used to show horses in hand and under saddle before I got into dogs, mainly warm bloods and thoroughbreds, but have always loved the cob maybe that's why I like the Brittany so much because it is a little cob.
would love to own a show cob but they are quite hard to come by now days and the top class ones are very very expensive.
The 2nd picture the horse which stands behind the main one is truly magnificent it has an excellent shoulder and exhumes quality, without even seeing the head.
It has substance and quality without heaviness, which applies also to the Brittany. I don't think the French could have got a better example than the Cob to explain the overall picture of the Brittany, if you know the cob horse it puts an instant picture in your head of what they mean when they say the Brittany should be a cob.
.Couldn't agree more with Anne I think the cob is getting to be in the minority of the Brits nowadays in this country and not the majority, especially with the tail, a lot of judges especially the all rounders tend to knock the dogs with the correct substance and cobbiness as they do not look as flashy and elegant as the ones with less bone and substance.
As for long legs the cob horse unlike the dog does not require these it asks for short legged animal which has strength, stamina,compact, stout built and the saying

Ghilliegumdrop

I hope you mean exude and not exhume Joanne, I had visions of you digging up a body [not sure who's it was though] Exclamation

Must admit I love the Cob look as well....I remember one which I used to ride up in Shropshire, he was the kindest horse I have ever ridden. I could let my daughter go out on him without any qualms and know that he would look after her all the time.

Not sure that Merlin has a 'grain of wheat' more like a lump of porridge Wink

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doganjo

Allez has a 'lump of porridge' too, with an ear of barley on the end of it. Laughing

This rain is doing my head in Twisted Evil

- I have hoovered and dusted the whole house now, cleaned all the windows, and still it rains. No point in taking the dogs out - they just get soaked in the long grass then are miserable in their kennels. They have all settled well to being outside while the babies are in the house. As for Belle, and her lump of muesli (not thick enough to be poridge) I doubt if she'll want to go back outside when the pups stink up the house too much. But out she will be Rolling Eyes

Ah well, agility with Freckles to look forward to tonight!
Annie

Patricia

Check Page 64 in Jean louvet's book, Jadis de St Thurial and Lambic du Sulon( Toscane's grand father!!!)
Also on the calendar done through Paul - Puk des Pigenettes-
My ideal are those legs. And they are pretty balanced, they make me melt Rolling Eyes

Sometimes you see a dog who sends goose pimples down your neck, they are so good...Lambic was one. It was love at first sight Laughing

Sadly he was ran over by a tractor and was worth sooooo much money....
I was lucky to find his son Ozo who won the Nationale in 2001.
Few dogs do that to me. The perfect COB.imo.

yarak

Thank you for that Jan, darn spell checker Rolling Eyes

I will have to start checking my post before I send them Confused

thankfully you knew what I meant to say.
Defiantly not digging any body up especially not in this rotten weather Laughing

Lets hope it is getting all the raining done before Le Weekend and it is going to be glorious sunshine on the first Saturday in October sunny

Ghilliegumdrop

I keep telling them we need a spellchecker on here Exclamation

Victoria