guy
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someone told me the other day a dog only understand 26 sounds - how they arrived at that figure i do not know.
I think they (dogs) understand body language more than we give them credit. i was trying to find out what the cue for Topaz to retrieve was; the word 'fetch' 'look there' hunt there' 'there'. Also what prompted his run out - 'fetch' or teh hand position or the hand movement. It transpired it was te flick of the hand that made him move and 'hunt there' that made him start seeking the retrieve. And all along until then I thought it was me saying go fetch' and waving my arm in the direction.
Topaz for instance will sit as I put the whistle to my lips - if he is paying attention that is 
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Victoria
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26!!!!! that does seem abit insulting to our dogs, doesn't it? Guy, what you write about Topaz is very interesting...a friend of ours with Labradors (he is a really lovely man but with the wrong breed of dog; I guess he has to have a fault!!) hunts deer all by hand signals; I would love to go out hunting with him to see the dogs in action. They do pay alot of attention to us. Gaston and I came upon a 'road-in' whistle last Sunday...we knew there was a pheasant in the gorse so I just made a little repeated pipping noise...it worked so we have practiced it and it still works!
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guy
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Victoria, that is interesting i was introduced to a 'hunt there' whistle. pip pip peep - done so it sounds like 'look in there'. It was demonstrated by a flat coat - the handler moved the dog about the ground and then hunted it - moved it somewhere else on the whistle and hand signals and hunted again. Very impressive and very useful I think to have a 'nose down ' comand. Well it will suit my style of working anyway.
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Victoria
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Gaston will be two years old at the end of this month and it delights me to see how his hunting has developed...I dont mean to patronise him as a hunter but when you see them trusting their noses and thinking about the quarry it is so neat! And how you both learn to trust each other! I also love the connection thing we have...that split second eye connection which can be made over a long or short distance. The energy they put into their work exhausts you just by watching them! There is nothing like rough shooting to figure your dog out, I reckon!! You really do come to understand THEIR passion. You read about the breed's persistence in the chasse and when you see it for yourself, it is pretty heady stuff!
The flat coat is a minority breed here; have only seen one (a bitch) at the local shows; beautiful head and very sassy; I must ask if they hunt her if I ever see them again.
Do beaters at a shoot use their dogs and if so what do they do (sorry, this has got completely away from puppy!!)?
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guy
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Victoria, now in a tidier place
I am working hard on cleaning up my language - and no I don't mean ' come here you b...... muppet'
At a quick count I use over 35 different instructions for 12 different responses. Some I accept are duplicates - hand, whistle voice to mean the same thing. but some only have one instruction (jump into my arms for instance) whereas I have 'heel' 'close' 'this side' 'here' 'side' and two hand signals that tell the dog to come to my left side next to my leg.
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Victoria
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Dont you think that it is hard not to duplicate the commands sometimes though. I have whistles for recall, 'with me" (as in we are going this way now and I indicate which way just by my body direction), now the 'road in' and a long long whistle for 'if you dont come back now, you're going to be in serious trouble!!!' and the 'stop'. Verbals are wait/reste, go/allez, come/viens, release/donnes, stand/debout and open (have an iron gate which he will open for me which is most useful when I have the wood barrow or buckets of goats milk!!). Then of course, there is just the usual chatter and heaps of 'bon chien'. The stop whistle alas is still a work in progress! but no 'bon chien' as I write as he has chased one of the guinea fowls..  ...
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guy
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perhaps we muddle 'tell' and 'ask'? I am coming to a way of thinking where commands should be absolute. For instance 'sit' is sit and therefore there is no need for a 'stay'. There seems only a need for one word for -go away from me and collect something and bring it back-.
I certainly have introduced new words when previous ones have lost their effectiveness (because I have allowed standards to slip) heel for instance became superseded by 'close' as it was used less often and more emphatically. The tone of voice is different - more get in place NOW.
I read somewhere the other day that a new command for the same action takes on a more powerful meaning than the original command. I did not get to 'why this is' but it maybe because we are more focused on teaching the command the second time around.?
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Liz
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Guy, I certainly have "tell" and "ask" commands - for instance "sit" or "down" means do it now or else, but "settle" means "Just stop wandering round the room, find yourself somewhere - either the floor, your bed or a chair, I don't mind which - and lie down and stop bothering me".
The dogs seem to know the difference
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Victoria
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I agree that tone certainly accentuates your authority; I see what you mean about wait and stay - you could drop the wait; like when I am opening his show cage I say 'wait' but it could just as well be stay - maybe this is wrong example cos you really are just wanting them to stay momentarily
I often wonder what he would like me to do - sit and shut up!!!!
My father used to tell his sheepdogs if they were barking to 'lie down' he never said 'be quiet'...guess a dog doesnt bark lying down?!
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Britmania
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It has been my/our experience that the secret seems to be consistency.
Both Barry and I like to train our dogs in a similar fashion - ie a short command for an action (stay,come,wait) and the all important "NO".
When training for retrieving, we ask the dog to wait while the bird (or object/toy/dummy) is thrown, then "Yes" is said enthusiastically, while sending the dog.When the dog returns with the object, it is encouraged to come in to our legs and "Give" is the command to release the item.
Funnily enough, we have found "sit" is not used often.Somehow, our brainy Brittany's all sit when asked to wait, so we have found we dont actually teach sit - as such.
I like to use wait when asking the dog to pause before going in the crate.
I then say "in" (or "in your crate") and the dog obliges.
Wait is also used for going through gates,doors and before hopping in the car , whereas "stay" is used when the dog is put somewhere, like its kennel or crate and when it is left for any length of time, like in the car.
For shows, I teach the baby pups to "stand" which is the position I want them to maintain, then "stay" means to stay put and not move. I always say "trot" when moving off, then give the dog lots of verbal praise (quietly) while moving.
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guy
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I believe obedience trainers use 'wait' and 'stay' depending if the dog is to be returned to or called on.
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Victoria
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Thank you Chris for reminding me of 'NO'!!
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Britmania
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I actually think "NO" is one of, if not "the" most important word a dog should understand. I always use it when I am saying there is no alternative to the dog.I also use a firm voice and lower the tone, so the dog knows it is different to everyday stuff.
The other word I think is important is "come". I expect my dog to react immediately and turn around and return to me now, not next week when it feels like it. Again, my tone of voice is forceful - I want the dog to understand there is to be no messing about - the call could save his/her life one day, so hesitation is not acceptable.
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Annie as admin
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This is much the same as mine, Chris. Instead of Trot I just say Heel and march off, expecting the dog to be at my side. I do use the sit command though as well as these others you mention. I command the Sit then send out for the retrieve when doing this exercise, although in the field the sit would be executed at shot, or perhaps even at flush.
Annie
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