Early castration

Patricia · Early castration

I was appalled to see 3 pups I bred castrated by the age of 6 months. Have the vets no shame? Through time and observation I have not noticed a difference in behaviour pattern. In fact, one of "my pups"- fostered at the moment- is mounting others. Which certainly would not go down with some males or indeed females Rolling Eyes

On mentioning it to my and my friend's vet, the latter ( having had her own terriers done early) thought it may affect hormones? I see no point in neutering young males at such an age, they can still mate and tie, still retain agression if they are that way inclined. OK, they don't produce pups...Maybe someone will enlighten me of the benefits???? Right now, I am rather mythed by this " neuter" everything policy. Evil or Very Mad

Mugi

In my opinion there are no benefits.

I have 4 dogs and only one is neutered and how I regret that (Piper was only done cos of the rules of his rescue and has just spent a month on strict kennel rest as he had a massive stitch reaction and had a pus filled scrotum). I am careful with my boys and have never had a problem with them either being a nuisance to bitches or wandering etc as a result. All of the lads are social (well perhaps Brice has some issues related to being entire but I also think his issues stem from the reaction of poorly socialised dogs when they meet a mammoth) and can and do mix in canine company.

Of course I would neuter if any of my lads needed it for health reasons and I do like to spay bitches but in hindsight would like them to have 2 seasons before surgery - I have lost a bitch to pyometra and had another need a bladder surgery after being spayed too young.

With a rescue hat on I can understand the benefits of neutering but as I don't use my dogs at stud I also know it is perfectly possible to have a household of males without removing the benefits of allowing them to mature.

My cynical hat on says it is another 'do gooder' fad as many vets do offer neuter and spay at a reduced price and knowing what costs are incurred some (but not all) will not be doing it for profit.

sallie

I am in favour of castration - Monet is sound as a pound, no health issues, no mounting issues, infact a real little gentleman. What is the point of having an entire male if you are not going to breed from them? I presume keeping them entire allows for showing and entering KC held events and that is all. On here i hear lots of moaning about X breeds, Brittanys being mated unsuitabley... so why not castrate and i could reverse the question, and ask, what is the benefit of having an entire male? Wink

Wyngold

Early castration has shown reverse health effects as opposed to spaying bitches.
Early castration causes delayed growth plate closure and thus continued growing time. It is also shown to be correlated to "Increased" cancer in dogs, it is also associated with increased dysplasia...whether this is due to improper weight maintenance or the delayed growth plate closure scientists are not sure. It is very much a detriment to large breeds of dogs who end up unbalance in muscle and bone developement.

Recognized Sports medicine veterinarian is an advocate against early castration is Chris Zink....and I have watched so many dogs who were castrated early as a Veterinary technician develope poorly.
In Hawaii the Humane society practiced 8 week old castrations when presented and we had issues with some urinary tract problems similar in line with early neutering of male cats. But anyway you can read her article at their sports med site:

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

sallie

Ghilliegumdrop

Personally I think that if you are going to neuter then do it when the animal has grown up, not while they are still babies. Perhaps we should have a neutering program for people as well. Do them all before they reach puberty then we will have no more teenage pregnancys and children producing more children all to go on the dole and be kept by the state with MY money what I have paid in to keep me in my old age. By the time I get to 65 I might well need it Evil or Very Mad

sallie

yet again words fail me

Ghilliegumdrop

Surely not Sallie Wink

Patricia

Oh Jan.... Very Happy

.You've just said what I daren't!!!!I have to go with Goldie on this one. I disagree totally with EARLY castration. Poor little dog without his "bits", still a baby and an exuberant one at that. Like his siter, his head" growth" plates are not finished( looks like a bump on the skull) he still has knuckle, showing he is not finished.
If my vet thinks it is not on to castrate young, then, she being very experienced, I take note. Confused

As for " Spike" a son of Spot de K, having been taken back by myself after a call from the vet who would not PTS for barking: He is castrated- people think it calms them down!- is hairy( now has to be clipped)has a tendency to be fat, still pesters the bitches, still runs like a maniac with his new owners. I cannot see how he is improved. Shocked

I am aware it has to be done for rescue dogs to avoid unwanted litters, but it has more to do with irresponsible owners. and for monorchids.
If you are going to neuter, at least wait until the animal is fully mature.
I believe it is more for human's convenience that to benefit the dog.
Like Sue says, poor socialisation( not genetic)or poor training has more to do with bad behaviour rather than poor temperament whilst a baby.

Liz

I've only ever had males castrated for medical reasons and never had any problems with them, maybe because they haven't been stud dogs. (Though we are waiting to see what will happen with Ozzy when one of the bitches in the village comes into season Shocked

)

I don't agree with early castration or speying as I believe the dogs have to grow up physically and mentally first.

I have my bitches speyed at around 7 years, to prevent problems later in life. I've only had problems with one who developed bladder problems - but that was controlled on 1/2 a tablet a week.

Patricia

I agree Liz...As a matter of fact, my stud dog is FAR less of a nuisance than other males as he knows the score and nevers pesters bitches when not in season. Mounting of any sort is not allowed in my household!! Same here, my bitches are spayed around 7 years.

bifty

Can I ask a question at this point?
We have trouble with Bracken when a bitch is in season, he runs off to find her. He hasn’t actually done the deal for real, as far as we know. Confused

We are forever telling him off for “humping” cushions, duvets etc. in the house. We are contemplating getting him castrated. We did try a “chemical” castration advised by our vet, it seemed to work but only for a couple of weeks. The vet said it should last about six weeks.
Could anyone advise us on whether castration is the right option?

We do have another problem which is driving us mad.
Bracken doesn’t seem to be able to go more than 4-5 hours during the night before wanting a wee. We take is water up very early in the evening and always makes sure he has “emptied” himself before bedtime.
During the early hours we are woken by Bracken to be let out. Sometimes it’s too late and he has wet the carpet which is very annoying to say the least. Otto can go through the night already at 5 months.
Could castration help this problem too ? Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks
Chris

Wyngold

As for Cancer being totally due to food....you are not following the research...

There are genetic markers for most Cancers, some are caused by a virus, and certainly some are due to toxins...which I well know having survived Liver Cancer from using pestacides and exposure to a Veterinary Anesthetic which is now not used.

Even Alzheimers has genetic markers and the more markers you have the greater risk you can be affected.
So yes genes play a major roll, but hormones are something that nature did not intend for man to abuse.....

With regards to the behavior problems just posted.

Suggestion go back to square one and use a crate at night to limit the dogs space. As far as humping another dog it is a problem that is due to dominance issues. Dogs and bitches hump each other trying to figgure out where they sit in the pecking order of the pack. The dog needs guidance as to its real place and should not be allowed to "choose" its place by testing you or the other dogs in the house.
When your vet used a steroid for this behavior he is messing around with normal cycles of hormones. If you want a more detailed help on behavior and you are realy willing to listen you can post me privately and answer some questions and I will be willing to help you out. It will entail a routine change and boundary issues to set.

Patricia

Goldie, would it not be more beneficial to post it here too? We may all benefit?
I hate mounting or humping of any sort. Or pestering bitches who don't get any peace." Sexual harrassment Wink

"
I now have 2 imported bitches of similar age ( came in at 11 and 15 months). My older bitch Toscane is top of the pack and no one bothers her. But Chriss and Clochette are trying it on for a higher place. I have noticed( not mounting) the Tri going from underneath and " grabbing" Chriss's muzzle. It looks submissive but don't think it is. Both are now trying for more favours. I no longer let either on the settee in the evening with me as it looks as there is competition for my attention.
The young male -the castrated one- also wets his cage... I would be tempted to reduce size of cage. Bedding away? Mounting- which he did with any others who let him- My friends who fosters him for the time being gave him a new playmate. A Jack Russell bitch who will tell him just how it is!!!

sallie

doganjo

I can see that neutering all dogs not used specifically for breeding would solve a lot of the rescue problems in one fell swoop, but it certainly can cause health problems. I am a believer in 'if it ain't broke. don't fix it' so as long as my dogs and bitches are fit and well i won't castrate or spay. Having said that I usually do spay bitches like Patricia and Liz at around 7 years, again for health reasons to prevent elderly pyo and some other hormone related illnesses. I have a problem this year as I have two Brittany bitches with Freckles being the boss and has already reached 7 - do I spay and risk upsetting the balance or leave her and risk her health. What should I do?
Annie

johnhod

Patricia

sallie

Hi Anne, if her position is secure at the top it shouldn't make any difference - Poppy is spayed and i doubt she would let any dog (male/female; entire or neutered) take over her domain; she rules on a tight rope and lets unruly dogs know she is boss... well she likes to think anyway... heck, this top-dog isn't letting her position go to NO dog Wink

As for Johns' post Laughing

Ghilliegumdrop

Castrate all the yobbos as well. As for sex offenders, we should have one day a month where we hang them on railings and castrate them with barbed wire Exclamation

While we are at it we should castrate anyone over 40 and any one with more than 3 children Evil or Very Mad

Also bring back hanging and the birch.
Why put a bitch through a major op just for our convenience....are you lot spayed when you reach 40 just in case you have problems Question

Then why should a dog be done........ just in case:?: I wonder how we managed before all this neutering became fashionable Exclamation

sallie

In my defence:

Poppy was done because she was seriously ill when she was little, poor thing had so many antibiotics and poking and prodding from the vet that i had no option Crying or Very sad

Monet, he was done because he was a hormonal little a git with an eye for the women (serious problem with bitches he had his nose constantly up their bum). It took a good 6 months for him to calm down... he would in time have sired unwanted litters and wandered. I have never owned males, though Mom did and this to me seemed the easier option. Plus because of his hormones he had no brain to work. Twisted Evil

Also he is not KC listed and was not going to be used for stud Wink

None of my spaniels were spayed and none had health problems, though one went mad at the age of 6 and was pts!!!! Hence Monet Rolling Eyes

Ghilliegumdrop

OK...I will forgive you for that then Wink

Liz

doganjo