| Archive for The Brittany Forum For all friends of the versatile Brittany |
| guy |
Gujan Maestras - CEB National Elevageweather forecast at moment.Friday, Jul 3 Intermittent Clouds Clouds and sunshine with a shower; not as warm. Winds from the WNW at 19 km/h. High: 25 °C Friday Night, Jul 3 Mostly Clear Mainly clear and cooler than the previous night. Winds from the WNW at 12 km/h. Low: 12 °C Saturday, Jul 4 Mostly Sunny Sunny to partly cloudy. Winds from the N at 8 km/h. High: 25 °C Saturday Night, Jul 4 More Details Mostly Clear A moonlit sky. Winds from the NE at 12 km/h. Low: 15 °C Sunday, Jul 5 Sunny Brilliant sunshine and very warm. Winds from the NNE at 8 km/h. High: 30 °C Sunday Night, Jul 5 Mostly Clear A moonlit sky and warm. Winds from the NW at 8 km/h. Low: 20 °C source http://tinyurl.com/mbkxej |
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| doganjo |
My desktop Gadget says its 23 degrees there now - at 11pm - I can never remember - is that 10pm there or midnight? | ||||||||
| Ghilliegumdrop |
At midnight last night it was 21' here. | ||||||||
| Mugi |
Chase is loving the heat so I have no worries about him on his holiday  .
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| guy |
Should be interesting - 272 dogs entered.
CLASSE CHAMPION 12 TOTAL CLASSE INTERMEDIAIRE 32 TOTAL CLASSE JEUNE... Read more 42 TOTAL CLASSE OUVERTE 111 TOTAL CLASSE PUPPY 2 TOTAL CLASSE TRAVAIL 70 TOTAL CLASSE VETERAN 3 TOTAL 272 TOTAL GENERAL |
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| doganjo |
Group photo on Dune du Pyla
Click to see full size image Lunch table 
Click to see full size image Merlin 
Click to see full size image Some strange ones 1. Liver and white with black ears 
Click to see full size image 2. Black and a little white with liver on muzzle and above eyes but nowhere else 
Click to see full size image 3. Lighter liver and white with dark tan overlay. 
Click to see full size image There were also 3 orange and whites with liver overlay on their backs and very trimmed ears. Food for thought I think in light of a ban on 'sable' |
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| Dave A |
Did any of the BCGB entries do any good ?
Dave A 
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| johnhod |
Or any of the strange colours? | ||||||||
| doganjo |
I think we had 3 excellents - Merlin (I think, not sure), Catja, and Beau.
One of the supposed orange and white dogs (don't know whcih one, wish I'd taken a note of the number) was pulled out in the last 10 in one class I watched and I swear it was a 'sable' - it's ears were trimmed VERY short, and it had much darker (liver) guard hairs on it's back. But it CAN'T have been - they are banned ....................................... 
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| Mugi |
I had a wonderful time and recommend the trip to anyone to really get a feel for the breed.
Watching the show was very interesting and noisy. Chase and I were eliminated unfortunately - I know he is tall but he has previously been measured 'in tolerance'. This time he was tired and hot and postured in to the measuring stick and was deemed way over standard - an unofficial check on his height later in the day proved he was wrongly measured in the ring but that was our fault as well ........... he needed to be more relaxed. He did get some very nice comments though from both french and other exhibitors so despite the disappointment I am not downcast. I will defintiely be going again, I am not sure where the show is 2010 but 2011 is much closer to the UK and easily accessible from the Tunnel or Dover/Calais ferry. |
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| guy |
Catja - Excellent
Beau - Excellent Chase - measured over height Chrissy - Tres Bon Merlin - Tres Bon Bolko - Anne Eissing - Excellent Amsel - Andrea Wreesmann (Catja's mother) Excellent 1st. just missed RCACS - she was robbed! as pictures elsewhere will I think show. |
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| Wyngold |
This IS NOT A LIVER DOG OVERLAYED IN BLACK ! THIS IS A VERY DARK SABLE.... Liver dogs NEVER HAVE BLACK NOSES OR BLACK TOENAILS ! Yes it appears the color of Liver and many get registered as livers. What the ky/ky & ay/ay genes do is turns teh Black into "orange" but there is another factor much like what makes some Tricolored dogs have small points or full orange faces that determins the intensity of this change to orange. This is a classic example of "rusting" that is a major fault in many breeds that should be jet black. ie Schipperke come to mind but for them it is more blocking out the brown gene and not so much sable.
This dog is just like the pups I had out of Oscar. They are born Black and White but do not turn Tricolor until after 3 months of age. This is another example of the gene that times the turning factor on and off. Depending on a countries registration system and time frames it shoule be properly called a Tri even if the feet markings are restricted mostly. This correlates to the "muddiness" that is considered undesiarable in the Gordon Setter Standard. This is still a "real" tricolor as the color intensity is too bright to be a "Phantom".
This is a typical Liver dog with a too soft textured coat that gets easily sun damaged or cold air damaged if outdoors. The dog seriously lacks grooming and most of the lighter stuff you see should have been "stripped" out with a knife or coat king tool. Some dogs who are spayed or have hormone imbalances will also look like this. Pretty common to see in spayed or neutered dogs where the hormones restrict proper shedding or old and dead coat. This "fuzzies" are also often seen in dogs with Thyroid issues. If it is just poor management in grooming then much can be fixed as I described in caring for a liver coated dog. Addendum after Original Posting: This dog is also a Liver Tricolor !
Of course we can pretend these are dark Orange, mahogany, or caramel colored but in fact they are Liver based Sables. Noses are darker than a rose (double liver orange dog), and can be slightly lighter than a true liver nose color. Frankly why hide the liver ears by trimming them short? If one wanted to follow the edict of eliminating this color eventually, one would not use any dogs harboring this coloration, use DNA testing to try and save lines and identify littermates and relatives within a line free of the ay gene factor. JMHO Thanks for the good photos and examples of how variant thes problem coats can be and how erroneous registrations start to get into the pedigrees we have. |
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| Pippa's Pack |
Thank you for your explanation of the various photos. This subject is fascinating and it is really helpful to have colour photos to study. I think the 'sable gene' is much more widespread than we originally thought. | ||||||||
| doganjo |
Yes, Goldie, thanks from me too for that explanation. I decided to post the photos without giving my own opinion but I agree entirely with yours. I wish I had taken note of them numbers now to see what happened in the rings. I am pretty sure that at least one of the orange ones with the trimmed ears was given an excellent and actually made the 'cut' It seems as Gay says they are more widespread than at first imagined and will be more difficult if not impossible to eliminate. We must remember that in a litter with a sable it's siblings will have a good chance of having the gene too, so they can continue to pass it down the line. | ||||||||
| Wyngold |
I could see this comming some 10 years ago at the National at Soissons. Many tried to get a concensus on how to handle these "off" colors that were comming up. Since my experience in German Shepherds gave me some insight into the inheretance of thsi color and the fact that it is dominant over Tan point I was rather surprised that so many felt it was not dominant at all. Of course now we know otherwise and being a dominant gene can easily be removed in a relatively short period of time if only folks will use the tools available to them. |
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| doganjo |
And those are? |
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| Wyngold |
Using the Genetic Color Chart to select mates. Look at prospective Orange dogs carefully to see if they have black (black based Sables) or Liver whiskers (Liver based sables). Do DNA test on litters that produce sables to find those that are not carrying in the litter if any. If the Parents are not Tricolors and they produced sables then test them to find out if one or both are carriers. |
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| Lin Dyke |
Congratulations to all of you awarded excellent and tres bon.
Sue, I can't believe Chase is oversized. U woz robbed 
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| doganjo |
This is NOT a true tricolour under the UK standard! But goodness knows what we can call it!! I sure don't know. As I said it only had liver (not tan) on the eyebrows and the muzzle - nowhere else!
NOR the FCI standard of 2003 - I have not yet had sight of the altered standard to take account of the 'sable' colouration.
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| Wyngold |
First off it was a genetic impossability to have a dog carrying both Liver and black hair colorations. And sof ar it is considered still to be impossible, but....So the first thing you MUST remove from your mind is this dog is NOT black and Liver. Why it appears liverish is due to the fact that the hair shaft still contains "particles" of unchanged or restricted Black granules. This affects how the light is refracted in the hairshaft. Genetically we see this same effect in various correct marked Tricolors where in some dogs their Orange points are fire red, some are deadgrass tan, and some are so tiny you have to look for a handful of orange hairs in the point regions of the face yet their legs are heavily marked Orange. This is the effect of switching genes. We know that the "K" locus is resposible for how much and where in the hair shaft the color Blac"K" is seen. We also know the the "b" brown locus also affect what shade of "Liver" we see bassed on which of the 3 'b' genes (b1,b2,b3 with 1 or zero copies)are in combination together. Since I am a curious person with regards to genetics and feel it is important to understand this from the standpoint of a "breeder" I have no problem spending money when it concerns my dogs. And from the many DNA samples submitted to research in the early days I was privy to finding out such mysteries of many of my imported dogs colorations. That is why I wrote the color article, and why I continue to update my article as the research comes available. What was unusual is that each country focus on specific research and shares DNA data through a national database where all countries get access. It was surprising for Pierre to find out that the France researchers did not know about the ay locus testing that is available here in various USA and Canadian laboratories. But then here in the USA we have many dollars invested by various breed clubs into genetic research, hence the early finding on PRA genes and other debilitating diseases of metabolism. Color is on the low end of research...but when govt funds were approved various groups made their choice and offerd reserch parameters for funds. Many here focused on temperaments and interesting it was discovered in that research many color connections....the information on the K locus was uncovered in California, while the Agouti gene research was done mostly in Canada, white spoting mechanics was uncovered by those researching cattle spotting factors. So here it seems there is much more cooperation between genetic researchers with less ambition it seems to be the sole finder of gene info, most papers these days are being publish with joint colaboration through many labs and countries. |
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| Patricia |
Going back to the Nationale:
For me it is catching up with the breeders and old plus new friends: Trying to find future stud dogs and stock. Discussing blood lines. and...eating well Maryse Baudet did a brilliant job of organising this year's Nationale and at the end of the week end, her eyes were red and tired. She ran round like a headless chicken
All the meals were beautifully presented and it put many to shame. Hors d'oeuvre in shape of ladybird and butterfly, bins full of oysters, sea snails, prawns, you name it...we had it. Plus White, Red and Rose wines. from of course, the Bordeaux area. The dog judging : Indeed some surprises in some of the critiques and odd measuring too! Poor Chase was overwrought by the manner of having a hefty and heavy measure over his back and lenght of body too   He freaked out, especially done by the assessor, President of the French Spaniel club  . The difference between the UK and FCI countries: We don't measure and I am sure we have dogs who wouldn't make the grade over there. Sadly the tolerance in size was debatable but another measure made him just over a cm smaller  The manner in which it was conducted was not too polite compared to what an English judge may do.
I was disappointed by the state of many bitches who either just had puppies or had their teats trailing with no hair underneath!!!  And here was me worrying about Baileys' lack of hair
I liked the Orange and White male class and Beau, Andy's dog made the last cut judged by Pierre Gaudin. Barbara stimulated a fair amount of interest with her tailled bitch and many stared... I also saw the strange Brittany whom I thought was a Setter and was corrected by Margaret stating it was a Finnish Britany...of well... A few nice other colours, many in the working class. I could not help feel sory for the lady with a Haille au Loup male who was not given the Hip scoring papers for her dog. She was told she had One hour to get them Or she would not get her placing. I don't think it happened. Anyway, this was my impression generally. The Nationale finished with an excellent dinner and so much laughing that I was "hoarse" the next day. It was all Barbara's fault with her love of the Italian dog or ????? Ask her next time!!!
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| doganjo |
Was that the same dog as I saw, Patricia? I asked them (in French) and it was a cross between an English Setter and an Epagneul Breton and was 13 years old. It was very grey round the muzzle but was still pulling like a train - or should I say a Brittany? lol |
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| Patricia |
For those who were not there to share this Nationale:
Here is the link posted on the CEB http://picasaweb.google.fr/christian.gunther69/GUJAN03?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.fr/christ...onaleGUJANMESTRAS?feat=directlink For those who don't want to trawl through 500 photos( though well worth it )
Barbara p 21( all second link), Guy P 162, Andy, P 319, Jan P 354, Sue P 361, the Italian job 379, and...P182, Reserve best bitch in Orange, surprised by her teats!
I enjoyed these, they are very good and shows you some good and some not so good! |
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| barbara |
Thanks for the link Patricia, great photos, especially the Italian Job
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| highclare |
Well that was 2 good links, and what a collection they were!
Really enjoyed looking at them. Which one was BIS or was there not one? Gill and Mabeleen |
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| Patricia |
Gill, glad you enjoyed them...Look on the first link photo 236, 238 onwards for quite a few shots of Cachou de St Tudec. He was my pick as Mieur Desprats ( des Sources Claires) took me -before the challenge- to see Michel Le'floch's dogs in his van :ie the famous Boy des Sources Claires & Rocky de St Tudec. Those being dogs who have achieved highly in the field. I was happy to go and see Cachou as I had spotted him on the pics of the St Brieuc show on the French Forum. I simply loved him...
Cachou was BIS, Mieur Pottier's black bitch, the reserve. I also like Mieur Desprez's tri male and a grand son of Lurky des Sources Claires. It was difficult to watch all judgings but I managed to see all males as the rings were beside each other...
Pleased to see that Andy did very well with his dog and made the last cut in a class of 40. I had been told the bitch judge in Orange may not be everybody's cup of tea! |
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| johnhod |
I like the look of Cachou, looks from the pictures as if he's in good working shape | ||||||||
| Patricia |
Interestingly, Cachou is line bred to varim des Sources Claires and Faust de Keranlouan.
I keep up with the field trial results on the French Forum and Mieur le 'Floch's dogs are "up there", Boy being in the awards very young-himnself a son of Rocky. |
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| guy |
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| doganjo |
From what I was told that is an understatement
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| Patricia |
Goes to show you have to pick your judges the same as here
Still shocked to see people exhibiting bitches who have recently whelped or whose teats dangle and are way too fat!! I am lucky to know the older senior judges and get tips
Catja's breeder's bitch looked good... It has been a real experience for me to meet new people and find things out about some kennels who may be of interest... |
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| Mugi |
Must burn the pics of Boy, Rocky and Cachou and remember them on Sunday. | ||||||||
| guy |
It was her dam - she was robbed!!! |
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| Patricia |
I'll look forward to seeing them Sue...I have found a few really good working dogs who have quite a reputation in France: so to see them in the flesh is great. And it will be useful blood too.
Guy, it was nice to catch up with the German crowd too, so many people to exchange ideas with
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| highclare |
Thanks Pat, Well explained. I liked the reserve best the black bitch which proberbly hasn't the legs for you as she reminds me of some Brits over here.
I wish I had gone with you all for more than one resaon Ha Ha. Gill and Mabeleen |
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| Mugi |
Gill - next year it is way down south but the following year it is very accessible to the UK so one or the other you must try to come either with or without a dog, it was a very social and educational visit (I have heaps of snippets I could bribe people with if I needed or wanted to ).
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| guy |
Lille for 2011 i think. but where down south next year? | ||||||||
| highclare |
Thanks Sue kind of you and yes I will go one year you see if I don't!
Gill and Mabeleen (who says she wants to go) |
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| Patricia |
Going to exhibit is a must Gill. had I known "dangly bits" and hairless bellies were OK to be presented, I would have brought Baileys over Her teats had by then gone back to normal but she is missing coat due to her Cesar It was not right for me to take her not at her best...
The Nationale is not just about the dogs though, it is sharing our common interest or, should I say passion, with so many from several countries. I met the Cyprian President too and was really surprised to hear the amount of money a trained Brittany makes Catching up also with the many I chat to on the French Forum
Without forgetting the laughs and food. That Sunday evening saw me unable to talk the next morning for laughing. And it was Barbara's fault partly  Her and Petro next table!!
Lille in 2011 will be very accessible. And my brother lives nearby... I can't think I will make Millaud( Pont de ), it is a long long way down and we may instead go to the Cirneco Italian show  to see more like my new" surrogate child". We have Italian friends so no problems with translating! and it would be good to compare the breed in its own country too. I also love Pasta & pizzas
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