Lets get things straight

highclare · Lets get things straight

What I am about to say I have thought about for some time now but this weekend has spured me into writting about what I feel.

Before I start there will be no names mentioned but I am sure they will know who I mean.
I am not a one for gossiping and I beleive that we are all different in life and people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

When I had the pleasure of Amana Ellis kindly asking me if I wanted a Brit pup, what she had in mind was in her way to try to get new people into the breed, she knew that if she let me have a good pup then I would show it.
I decided that weather the pup was good or bad I would try to learn as much about the breed and the people in it. I didn't have to as there are lots of people who currently show lots of breeds and probably know little about them, like the oragin, the function, the health ect.
I have been to a seminar, agm's, open shows, club weekends, and training days. I have probably done more years in dogs than most people in Brittanys but have always tryed to bow to the greater knowlage of people in the breed.

To be honest I have hit hurdles all along the way. First of all I was accused of over trimming Mabeleen when in fact she is now nearly 4 and still not grown the coat around her neck, next I was accused of Mabeleen having the look of american breeding, then someone sayed to a friend of mine that Mabeleen was of course not a real Brittany, lets not forget I was accused of being a lesbian which I am NOT that hurt me alot.

I have been told that Mabeleen isn't very typical. I have been shouted at at Crufts for leaving her on the bench secure in a cage when I was in a completely different hall showing my welsh, I was told I should bench them together when obviously people didn't know the rules.

I have been forced to take her away from the benches as people were interfearing with her. How I care for Mabeleen is my business, I love her to bits and a few hours in a cage is not going to hurt her in anyway, at home she never sees a cage she runs free with my other dogs all day and is given at least an hour exercise every day she then sits on my knee at night while we watch tv. Lets face it most normal people have about 8 hours sleep a night and there dogs are not taken out and exercised then.
I could go on and on but I will not bore you all with it.

There are some very nice people I have met in the Breed and I am beholden to them for there help.
I think the main problem with some people is pure jealousy. I have been really lucky to get Mabeleen as I know I will never get another one like her but I wanted to do my best but I am being forced to out of the breed.

I suppose some people will read this and wonder what is going on, well all I can say is this is how I feel and General chat is where I should put it.

Gill and the lovely Mabeleen

(ps sorry about the spelling)

doganjo

Gill, I am so sorry about all this and how you are feeling. You are right, there are a number of people in our breed who get very jealous of other people winning and think it is their own prerogative to win and no-one else's.

I felt hurt recently like you when Allez achieved the Show Certificate of Merit - the only Brittany other than Tala (Eastonite Talapion) ever to have done this.(as far as my research has shown anyway, but I'm happy to be told otherwise) You congratulated me and I believe three other people did apart form my own family.

I can take the blame for telling you Mabeleen was overtrimmed on her neck - if you remember I came and spoke to you and Amanda at a Club Show. I don't believe in talking behind people's backs, I came straight out with it and you showed me how easy her hair falls out on her neck. I accepted that, but I think I did say it makes her look American. So here is my apology right now. I didn't intend to hurt you ever. But I have also praised Mabeleen (and you particularly for supporting the AVNSC Classes) in my notes whenever she has won in the ring.

I'm not sure what you mean by being forced out of the breed? You only have Mabeleen, and you show her a lot, so I can't figure out what you mean except you feel you can't have another one because of this attitude - or were you thinking of breeding her and can't find a stud dog to suit. I'm happy to help you but you probably know more about pedigrees than I ever will. I do however have an in depth knowledge of most of the lines. I know which ones consistently have low hip scores and which ones have American breeding in them, for instance.

I have no knowledge of the other matters in your post but if true it is unacceptable to say such untrue things about anyone.

I don't get to Championship Shows any more due to the distance and not having a co-driver (you know why) so I don't hear malicious gossip to any great extent. If I do I usually ignore it.

If nothing else your post should make people sit up and have a think of what they personally may have said to you.

Give 'THAT MAbeleen' a cuddle from Auntie Anne - she has been fodder for my breed notes on a number of occasions.

highclare

Annie, to be honest you have never been the bad guy here, yes you did say about her trimming but as you said you were up front and it was put behind us. I always say well done to people who win in the ring even if they have beaten Mabeleen. I don't have a problem with loosing I never have, it is always going to happen with what ever breed I have. It is the people who smile when they have lost then try to cut my thoat after.

I like most people like to win I always make sure what ever I show is in tip top condition at all times the rest of the week my dogs are black with mud.
Thank you for your words as I said there are some very nice people in the breed.
What I mean when I say people are forcing me out of the breed, yes I suppose one thing is the breeding side but the other is I don't feel I want to put in the 100% I have done up to now like the agm's, training days Club weekends ect. I could end up just showing Mabeleen to death getting more CC than anyone could ever hope to beat and move on to another breed. I so don't want to do that and I feel that sort of attitude is bad for the good and benifit of any small breed.

Gill and the Mabeleen

guy

Can I wearing my admin hat - remind all who wish to post to this thread that this is a public forum, it is not a club forum and that it is read worldwide.

No personal reference or implicit remarks should be made, either towards people who might not read this forum and therefore do not have an opportunity to reply or towards singular members as this would be deemed libelous.

Please keep statements to matters of fact.

guy

Wearing my own hat -

I am disheartened to read this thread. Behaviour such as you mention - interference, certainly if malicious - should be brought to the attention of the KC immediately.

Gill,
I would be interested to read a 'what you would like to see' or 'what would make it better' post. With your experience in other breeds there may be some common and best practices we do see in this breed - for whatever reason.

Ghilliegumdrop

[quote="guy"]Wearing my own hat -

I am disheartened to read this thread. Behaviour such as you mention - interference, certainly if malicious - should be brought to the attention of the KC immediately. [quote ]

Or a letter should be written to our chairman so that he can deal with it at committee level.
This is downright bad sportsmanship and, personally, I think that anyone so bad mannered and jealous should get out of showing,
out of the breed [whatever it is], and go for councelling.
Never mind Gill it just goes to show that you handle in a professional manner with a brilliant little show girl and these people are pig sick that they haven't got one like her so they too can win as much as you.

PS You can give me a hug any time you want by the way.......it's a well known fact that a hug a day is good for your health Exclamation

highclare

Quote <<Gill,
I would be interested to read a 'what you would like to see' or 'what would make it better' post. With your experience in other breeds there may be some common and best practices we do see in this breed - for whatever reason>>

Well Guy,
I have been in Welsh for 30 years and when I had my first welsh I was welcomed into the breed with open arms and it is still the same today, when ever a new person comes into the ring for the first time everyone wants to help them.
I know it is written in the Brit code that all members are to welcome new comers well I am sorry it just dosn't happen.

I feel if people have taken up the challange to take on a Brit, then as people in the breed the challange should be how can this person help the breed? Maybe if they have never shown before then perhaps they have other things that they can offer the breed and club.
If they have been in other breeds then maybe there expertees in the canine world, could make a club stronger.
Of course most small clubs hate new people as it might mean they will win more than the people already in the club.
In saying that there are people in Brittanys who work tirelessly for not only the club if they are on the committee but for the breed in general. I have noticed that those people never get much of a thanks.

I can't tell this club how to perform one way or another all I can say I am at the end of my teather with all of this.
I am not saying all of this to win any more in the ring I am saying this so I can feel apart of a Breed I have fallen in love with. I want to be in the family, to be apart of a club that supports each other and is prepared to stick up for the people in the breed as well as the breed. I enjoy the dog world alot and if I am going to drive hundereds of miles to a show it would be nice to be greeted with real smilling faces.

Yes it is nice to win and yes I like to win but I will never have the attatude that some people have that winning is the B all and end all.
When we are all too old to bother about the shows and the club and when it dosn't really matter any more then we have to leave a club strong, active and with good values and not for people to look back on these years with horror.

Now I really am going on too much and no Guy (with your admin hat on) I am expressing my oppnion and will not be slandering anyone. If I have a gripe with anyone in particular it will not be on the forum it will be infront of the Kennel Club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gill and yes my only Brittany Mabeleen

Ps sorry more bad spelling!!

doganjo

Gill, I am more and more thinking that you should mention this to Alan for him to bring it up at Committee, as Jan has said. We must keep the Club openminded. But remember this forum has no links to the Brittany Club of Great Britain. Some members and committee members are also members of this forum but there is no other connection.

johnhod

As has now been pointed out a number of times this forum is not linked to the BCGB (other than via a number of people being memebers of both).

Can I respectfully suggest that discussion on items for the agenda of BCGB committee meetings are discussed elsewhere.

Ghilliegumdrop

With all due respect, John, I, personally, did not know the subject was going on the agenda. Do you have inside information Twisted Evil

Having said that, I really think it needs bringing up in committee. This is clearly a subject that is causing considerable concern, not only for Gill, but for other people as well and needs to be addressed at the soonest possible time.

johnhod

I don't know that it's going on the agenda. I'm just suggesting that this is not the place to put forward items for the club's committee to discuss.

I think we are in danger of falling into the trap that has caused trouble before in that some people obviously know more about this situation than others so if effect it becomes a private discussion held on an open forum. I think that the conversation should be conducted by email/telephone, rather than on a forum that, as Guy has pointed out, has a membership/readership wider than the BCGB

Ghilliegumdrop

Fine, no problem here, although I do think that Gill has the right to put forward her thoughts on the subject if it concerns the Brittany show-world.

highclare

Please let me clear up this situation. The reason I wrote what I did on this forum was to get to as wider audience as possible.

It is not something I can write to people or ring in person. I meant that as a newcomer I was finding people in the breed where being,,....well just horrible. I did say at the beging that I wasn't going to mention names, so don't worry.

I think this is just the right place to make this complaint, it is not meant for the committee although if I think any of the committee have gone against the rules here then I will have no hesitation in reporting it to the Chairmen ok.

May I suggest that you read my opening post again and I hope you understand just what I am trying to say.

Gill and the Mabeleen

Patricia

Oh Dear

What is happening...
I look back with fond memories, my " older" days in the club...I got help from Stan, from Ray and his wife, from Margaret, Kathy etc...I met such good people whom I still chat to even if they no longer come to Brittany events.
All the newbies would go and ask advice from the " old timers" and follow religiously their suggestions.
Just looking back from our time at the Nationale last month; when we spent an evening dinner together and had so much in common: not just fun but mostly our passion...for the dog.
I treasure those memories Cool

I don't know what is going on, really I don't...

johnhod

As someone even newer to the breed that Gill (and most definitely newer, as an owner, to the wonderful???? world of showing) I have not noticed any real nastiness among people. Yes some are more competitive than others, some are louder than others, some may seem more stand-offish, some more officious than others but isn't that just people. What a terrible life this would be if we were all the same.

I would not join any organisation and expect to get on equally well with all its members. Some people are just easier to get on with, some it's worth working at developing a relationship with, others may be nodding acquaintances and others I just may not get on with, or they with me.

Maybe I'm just lucky, maybe I'm just thicker skinned (or possibly just thicker) but I've yet to come across anyone associated with Brittanys who is really nasty.

Dave A

doganjo

Dave A

Your never old enough Laughing

doganjo

Oh yes I am - now don't start a pantomime on here Laughing

highclare

Quote<<As someone even newer to the breed than Gill (and most definitely newer, as an owner, to the wonderful???? world of showing)>>

I agree with you John in princapal but with respect to your lovely Brits you haven't got a bitch on 15CC (yet). Don't you think that makes a difference to how people are to you, I know it shouldn't but it dose. I am sure you understand what I am saying.
In saying that I have a welsh springer on 28CC and it hasn't made a smite of difference to how people are to me.
Maybe the people in Welsh think that bitch is good and the people in Brits think Mabeleen is rubbish.
As I said in the first place I will never have another Mabeleen but I want to be in Brits and welcome in the Brits weather I have a really good dog or not???
That is all I am saying.

Anyway what are the allotment lot really like, I have heard they do horrible things to each others gardens?

doganjo

I understand, Gill, and I really do know what you are speaking about. Jan and I do think you should ask for this to be discussed (in general terms of course Rolling Eyes

)

I jpoined a smallholders association when ic ame down her - they are the nicest, friendliest bunch you could wish to meet. I got 8 kgs of Victoria plums and 2 kgs of conference pears from another member a couple of days ago - I've run out of jam jars!

We do quite a lot of bartering too! It's great fun.

Patricia

What a shame you feel like this Gill Confused

If any grievance, speak to Alan if some are being truly horrible.
It is a pity but whatever the dog at the end of the lead, we take the best one home.( Even Pepsi Wink

) who is so happily settled since her show days .
I am privileged to have met some people in the Brittany Club who have become friends, some with qualities I admire, some I would not pass the time of day with, some I utterly respect and admire. Jealousy? maybe, but they'll get over it.
I have a bitch who won BIS in France, like Guy too who won the German Nationale. Are some jealous? I don't think so...
There are simply the good losers and the bad sports, and that goes in everything whether it is showing chickens or horses.
It is" you scratch my back and put up my horse and I'll do the same next time Shocked

)
Then you have the working events- training days- Those are just another social day often ending up with a bottle, 2 or more Razz

A stiff Gin & Tonic after a day in the cold and wet and tired limbs.
Spring pointing: lots of taking the micky out of one another, teasing, laughing and still competition in between handlers. Cakes and more bottles, entertain organisers, learn from the judges.
The Club is the whole thing, if something is very wrong or malicious it needs to be said- in the correct manner-
22 years of it has not put me off...yet!!! And yes, we have had our ups and downs...and clashes too Confused

Dave A

15 CC now thats a bit like growing the biggest carrot for 15 yrs you would need barbed wire and guards around it with our lot. Laughing

But they would be nice to your face Twisted Evil

doganjo

guy

Out of idle curiosity 15 or 28 CC - why ?

doganjo

Why what? Gill says she has a Brittany with 15 and a Welsh with 28. The welsh folk are nice to her, the Brittany folk aren't - or so she says. Not sure what your question is?

guy

why keep collecting cc's after 3?

Dave A

Interesting point and not being a show person i'm looking forward to the next round Cool

Dave A

highclare

15 or 28 CCs well that is a good question. If I had only won 3 then that would have been it no more showing. I enjoy showing the Mabeleen and clearly she loves it. Who knows what you might win at the next show you pay your and take your chance.
The welsh enjoys showing too but I have had dogs that haven't really wanted to put there hart and sole into it so I have made them up and then left them on the bed at home or done other activitys with then like working. Some have been PAT dogs as all they want is fuss or some are used to go to schools to teach kids the rights and wrongs of dog ownership.
I hope I have answered your question!!

Gill and the Mabeleen

Dave A

Hi gill
Thanks for that, Its like any hobby or interest you keep going until you have had enough or fail to get the same buzz or enjoyment from participating, and we all have our own goals within that chosen interest, Its what makes us tick as humans Laughing

Dave A

doganjo

guy

highclare

Quote from Anne<<
I think that's how it is with me - I've kind of lost interest in Champ shows because I wasn't enjoying sitting on the bench with my dog all day and only meeting folk in Brittanys (And being involved with the gossip!), I enjoy Open ones where I meet owners of all breeds, they are easier to get to, there's no link to breed gossip, and I enjoy agility and gundog work. But I suppose if I had a dog that kept winning against all comers I might get interested again if I was able to get a co-driver.>>

Well Anne.
What an honest reply that was, so refreshing someone who can say it as it is. Welldone Anne.

I agree sitting on the bench all day you learn nothing about other breeds, the real show life or the canine world. I have noticed that the second the judging has finnished you are all off like shots. I come back to the benches and there is no one to be seen. Of course I know people have things like other people and dogs to get back to, but it seems such a shame as getting to know other breeds and breed people is what makes the shows for me. I have some wonderful friends in many many other breeds and I take delight in having some great fun with them.
It dosn't hurt to leave your beloved dog alone on the bench to sleep while you go around the show.
Oh well that is just my humble opinion!!!

Gill and the Mabeleen

Pippa's Pack

Hi Gill,
What a shame you feel as you do when you have such a super dog which you show with such skill. I do not know whether something happened recently to bring this to a head but always feel these things are best brought out into the open.

With reference to the points you make, my feelings are as follows:

If anyone is being nasty because of jealousy or envy this is their problem, not yours. They are not worth losing any sleep over. The same thing applies if they are being bad losers. Obviously, everyone would like to win but, as the saying goes 'If you cannot stand the heat - get out of the kitchen'.

With regard to grooming - you are a professional and are, therefore, showing your skill in that direction as well as your dog. What you do is your choice and if you like it and the judge likes it then that is all that matters. Whether a person baths a dog before a show, trims round the ears and feet, has a complete grooming carried out, or brings it into the ring straight from the field is up to the individual exhibitor.

American breeding? Tell me about it - one of mine has pale colouring as she is clear and from a liver mother. Her colouring is in harmony with her coat but do not try to tell that to many of the breed specialists. People often ask if she has American ancestory.

Typical? Again just a matter of opinion. Maybe it is the rest that are wrong. The judge on the day decides.

Leaving her on the bench? On this point I have to disagree with you. It is not the same as leaving the dog asleep for 8 hours in the night. Our bodies (and our dogs' bodies) function differently at night. The only time I was present when you left Mabeleen was at Crufts. She did cry and bark a lot. It is a stressful environment - a noisy, echoing hall, loud speakers blaring, people clapping and cheering, dogs howling and barking etc. Of course you cannot be in 2 places at once but why not ask another Brittany exhibitor to watch her, make sure she has a drink and take her for a wee if necessary? After all, we are all dog lovers.

If anyone has actually interfered with her against your wishes, then that is another matter entirely and should not be tolerated.

I realise the Kennel Club has rules about benching different breeds together but I know of at least 2 occasions when Brittany exhibitors have obtained permission to bench a different breed with their Brittany. Maybe we should be pointing out to the Kennel Club that this rule should, perhaps, be relaxed sometimes?

Finally, you have been advised to report them to the Club Chairman or the Club Committee. I disagree. This should not be necessary unless they have done something really bad. You talk to these people. Ask them what their problem is. Do not bottle it up it will just fester - take action to put things right.

Remember these wise words from the poem by William Blake entitled The Poison Tree:

"I was angry with my friend - I told my wrath -
My wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe - I told it not -
My wrath did grow'

In other words - talk about it to them. Sorry to ramble on - just like to try to be constructive. We should all be working together. I was really grateful for your advice about Chloe's coat. Everyone says how good she looks. That is what our Club should be about. Helping one another, caring for our dogs, friendly rivalry and having a good time.

Best wishes and congratulations on your win at Welsh Kennel Club.

Patricia

Good post Gay...
Personally, I am worried leaving dogs on benches's days are gone. You just don't know who will startle your dog/ bitch, whether another dog or child may upset it if left unsupervised by parents ( yes it happens) and how a tired dog will react however good it is normally. And it would be the dog who pays the ultimate price if it growled or else Confused

Clear Brittany: I had one -Patouche Imperiale-and I can vouch for the lesser coat( grooming is also my job) Though she had a Black nose and dark eyes. She carried little coat on her neck and seldom did I ever take anything off her. Regarding whether a dog is trimmed or bathed, it is nicer for a judge to have a reasonably clean one to go over!!!! Even though they give you baby wipes. Trimnming enhances the cobbiness of the Brittany, I remember Tchao's breeder showing me how to take hair off under the tail Wink

Like Gay, I also feel if something bothers you, talk it over with the offender(s) as it may be resolved better in that way?
As going home straight after a show, it is also true many have families, and other animals to get back to. This is why I do my socialising at Open shows and watch the judging there too. This time in Stonham Barn, Whippets and Pugs, bulldogs etc...!!! I took my French niece who works in a large gardening/ pet shop selling puppies and kittens( yes she hates it too) and discussed how the French Bouledogues looked different in France!!! and found a nice lady who had a...French Afghan.
Open shows are less stressful to and usually closer!!!

doganjo

I worry about my dogs on benches as well - that's why I'm not so keen on Champ shows any more. Yesterday I got Best of Breed with Freckles at SKC and by the time we went back to the benches (we were FOURTH breed in the ring) there was practically no-one there, so I went to the Group Stewards and asked if I could bench Allez along with her when waiting to go in the ring. SKC have an excellent system for Group judging. It is all done in the same tented ring, with a second tent alongside which is benched. All the breeds present have their own bench so any time after 2.15pm you can go there and have a cuppa and biscuits. There was no problem with Allez being left there while I was in teh ring - plenty of stewards around, plus photographers and journalists. I wish more Champ Shows did the same.

Pippa's Pack

One reason why we like showing in Ireland is because there is no benching just like our Open shows. We mix with people who have other breeds and everyone is friendly and helpful. It is different from here though. A large umbrella is essential and most of the Irish exhibitors put up small tents. You need to take a chair and a portable cage is a good idea if you have more than one dog.

Congratulations Anne on your success at SKC. Well done Freckles, BOB at 8 years old! Very Happy

highclare

3 very good replays well done girls.
The only thing Gay is Mabeleen is frightent of nothing, when I first showed her she went mad on the bench and it was difficult for me to know what to do with her. That is where the cage came from she was better in the cage but she is a premadonna (that is not spelt right) that is why I get the best out of her in the ring, she will play to the crowd. If you pander to her she will be worse. She loves to be the centre of attention and will reel people in to think she is hard done by.
She should be on the stage really. If I put water in she just flings it about and then she is wet to go into the ring. I never give water before she goes into the ring as I don't want her to be full of water and uncomfortable
when running around.

When we were at Richmond I put her in a smaller cage and put under her a large ice block. She was not hot all day and wasn't panting on the bench and was cool in the ring.
As for Crufts I suppose people who took it apon them selfs to take Mabeleen out of her cage for a pee where thinking they were being kind and I thank them for that but with all the problems of the aminal rights people coming to let out the dogs (or so they said) it frightened me to death when I came back to find an open cage and no Mabeleen.
Mabeleen is my dog and at no time would I want to hurt her, weather people agree or not I love her to bit and I would never harm her.

As for trimming Pat you are 100% right and I wish people would get this into there heads she grows no coat under her neck yes I trim the fringe on her tail around her ears and around her feet. What you see is what you get. I am lucky she is my little wash and go dog.

Thanks Gay for your indepth reply, I know your difficultys with the bitch who is clear. I personally think you are a smashing person and you work very hard for Brittany's and the Brit club.

Gill and Diva Mabeleen

Patricia

You only need to see Mabeleen running round the hall after a Club show and sitting on Mum's knee to see she is well loved Razz

Interesting subject going onto atmosphere at a show and which people prefer!!!
So for Anne, it is the Open shows, Gay the Irish shows and for me the French shows.( I love the food and the aperitif served in between classes Wink

) I can sepak French and feel at home and remember why I married an Englishman!!! Wink

Talk about what people say when you have an English winning dog and the looks one gets especially when bred from a French working kennel Shocked

They are not all nice. Some quite blunt but they say it to your face!!

highclare

well said Pat
I am sending this on my new Blackberry Storm. Mobile the number is. 08
07876711400 IF anyone wants it.

Pippa's Pack

doganjo

Probably the same reason as I did - Tall, goodlooking and in need of looking after Wink

highclare

Good greif I got the number wrong it is 07876711400.

Gill and the Mabeleen

doganjo

I just texted you - reply to confirm I got it right.

guy

Gill I think you should delete you mobile number and offer it via pm.

highclare

I know I am being stupid but what is pm.

Gill and Mabeleen

doganjo

private message - did you receive my text?

highclare

Yes I did many thanks.

Do I have to PM everyone, I thought this was the best way to let everyone who wants to know, know so to speak.

Gill and the Mabeleen

Wyngold

I know I am not in the UK but I will make some comments based on what was posted here.

We have a few Benched shows here in the USA, one here in Oregon that I used to attend but do not now. If benching is allowed in cage then there should be no problem with leaving a dog alone. You can padlock your crate shut when you are gone, I do. This keeps a dog form being set loose or removed without your permission and inthe case of a boistrous dog inadvertanly opening a cage and setting it self loose.

As for leaving water it is a law in most places that an animal must have access to water at all times (24hrs), I do not about the UK but it is pretty standard every where. I don't know about some of your shows but I suspect that they make provisions for electrical hookups and carrying a portable hand dryer is not uncommon nor is it cosmetically altering a dog to dry it if it does in fact get wet. What I do for my dogs is to use a 1 qt SS bucket with about an inch of water in it and I clip it to the "back" of the crate so that a dog that may like to paw at the front of cage is not likely to unseat it. If you use a 30-34" long crate about 20" wide any Brittany can move freely around in it and not upset the bucket. I do have a fear of leaving such a bucket in the crate because of some crazies that might drop something in it. So with the bucket in the back of the crate it makes it pretty obvious that someone is "doing" something they should not. Hopefully you have some "friends" in the Brittany crowd who can at least provide some "eyes" on occasion...I know even is I had a very negative competitor benched next to me I would provide that service of eyes for any hanky panky regardless and I think most true dog lovers will in any case.

Leaving a dog on the bench should not be something someone is judge wrong for doing. Each dog is different. Here I used Bench shows to help super saturate a young dog to "show atmosphere" they became better show dogs when older at non-benched events. They learn to settle faster, JMPEx.

As for grooming...funny thing MOST BITCHES just do not grow the kind of coat that males do and rarely if ever do they have a "bib" to have to trim.
So that comment kind of surprises me a bit. And besides those of us who really know grooming can shave a neck down and have it look like a natural neck by show time in any case. Plus the really good coats found especially in Orange dogs are often never needing triming at all!

And for the person who posted about thaving a clear dog with 2 copies of Liver genes....it is rather sad to hear this if all else is good on the dog. It is a "preference" that should not be made agianst your dog as the standard makes no such preference. I hope in the comming years that even the "French" judges and owners will learn something about genetics and they whys and whynots of nose pigment and eye coloration based on genetics. Many French dogs have yellow genes and many American lines have richer pigments but it does not make one line of dogs better or worse than another. What this comment shows is that training and education of judges are sorely lacking in that all nose pigments (Black, Tobac, Liver, Tan) other than lack of any pigment (White) is acceptable
in the breed. It is this falacy that is continualy perpetuated that has resulted in a near extinction of the original color of the breed (liver). I am glad that there are more breeders now in France and elswehere trying to hold onto the color even though it will produce orange dogs with tan noses.

At least the current president of the CEB continually makes strides in this direction to not outcast homozygous liver based Orange dogs.

OK Off my soapbox...Bye

guy

below any of your posts you should see a button with pm on it - private message.
you need to be aware there are things called 'spiders' that wander about the net and collect numbers and email addresses for not always kosher reasons.

A post that says 'I have a new telephone number -please 'pm' me and I will let you have it'.

Just my advice - not something you 'have' to do. Just do a google search for Gill Tully to see how much stuff is out there - for instance your photo - used with permission on an anti tail docking site - for your info http://anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/

highclare

Oh I love the bucket in the cage, I know the rule about water in every cage or on every bench. The heat at most of the summer shows in the US can be very hot. Of course not all dogs will drink at shows.

If Mabeleen had a small bucket of water in her cage I would find her swimming in it that would be fun.

Good mail Wyngold.

Gill and the Mabeleen

highclare

Thanks Guy, very good advice you are right I should have thought about it. I am so excited about my new mobile I just wanted to tell every one, I can be such a plonker.
The photo was used on that websit with my permission. Lovely dog but he got auto immune but is still alive for now, shame!!!

Gill and the Mabeleen

Pippa's Pack

Pippa's Pack

doganjo

Patricia

French men can be arrogant Cool

.I have noticed you can get stared at in French shows -well more the dog!
Maybe it is curiosity, many will want to buy you a drink after a win, like Pascal Moulin of the St Alamo kennel.
But you also get some comments like" why don't you take all the hair off the ears?" I reply: I simply don't like the " startled look"!
Then it is a man 's world in the field and I am aware of it.
I like English men( sorry the Scots!!) because mine does not need looking after - he looks after me Wink

- he loves dogs, is very trainable, has good breeding and excellent temperament Very Happy

Ghilliegumdrop

And he's looking over your shoulder when you are writing on here Twisted Evil

Patricia

Definitely not Jan!! Busy drilling, working the land etc...( he'd kill me!) Very Happy

highclare

Quote from Pat<<French men can be arrogant>> No getaway really!!!!!!!!!!

I like Swedish men, blonde, blue eyes, fit and like sport. I can say you have a goodn there Pat he is lovely you are really lucky. He is good looking, clever, has loads of fields to let you run your dogs on, has he got a brother Ha Ha???
I think you are blinkered as far as englishman are concerned, I mostly find then unfit, lazy, fat and bad tempered. In saying that the show world is full of gay men.
I went out with a black man once and yes it is true what they say about black men well the one I was with had a --- one. Whoops to much infomation I will have Guy telling me off sorry lol.

Gill and the Mabeleen

Patricia

Not much difference between a Black man and a Swede Confused

Gill, I think you're looking in the wrong place! Indeed most show men are ...the other way( Jess will tell you).
Instead of staying behind at the shows, go and volunteer at Country fairs, also you would be better going to game fairs FOR PROPER MEN, Farmers or the like.... Wink

Put an ad in: Wanted...see what you get Wink

highclare

Yes I thnk you are right I do like the farmer type, must be strong and good looking. I think small country shows are best, what do you think? If you could see the muppets that are around here ekkk.

Gill and the Mabeleen

Victoria

highclare

Ha Ha good one Victoria.
Anyone else got an advert idea??

Gill and the Mabeleen

Ghilliegumdrop

The one that I put in ran something like this.......

Wanted Paul Newman look-a-like to teach inept lady to play squash.

[didn't know about Sean Bean then] and just look what happened. Nearly 24 years later I have Mike, two Brittanys and an old bat of a MiL and still cannot play squash Rolling Eyes

highclare

good one Jan very funny.

Gill and the Mabeleen

Patricia

Hi Gill! Try: muddymatches.co uk . and have your choice of wellies!!! Complete with men to fill them, must have loads of money for early retirement and back massage Wink

muddymatches has come in handy if you're fed up with boring, unfit, flabby, unmuscular townies who only think about drinking down the pub ( instead of feeding pheasant pens!)
Let us know how you get on and we'll all come to the wedding Wink

highclare

I will try it and I expect you to all buy new hats for the wedding ok.

Anyway how do you know that site you didn't find Alan on did you lol?

Gill and the Mabeleen

Patricia

Come on, 29 years ago and the internet????!
Nope, but I know many who have had success with this reputable internet site, it is also present at the Game Fair( look out for the bales of straw!)
So, let us know what you fish out!!! May not be Swedish but I am sure you'll find a good alternative drunken

highclare

Come on, 29 years ago and the internet????!

Only kidding. If I could find someone LIKE Alan I would be there like a shot.

Let you know lol.

Gill and the Mabeleen

Ghilliegumdrop

Pippa's Pack

Sorry, need to be serious again. After what has been said to me recently and what has been said today, I feel I need to clarify my earlier post, although I did feel at the time I had made my feelings clear.

I did not 'take sides' in this matter. I advocated talking face to face about the problems. What I did say, and stand by, is as follows:

If anyone is nasty due to jealousy or envy this is their problem. The operative word in this context being IF.

Manner of grooming - owner's choice

Typical or not? - Matter of opinion

Leaving on the bench - felt this should not happen - suggested asking another exhibitor to help out.

Interferance against the owner's wishes - should not happen

Reporting to Chairman or Committee - suggested this was not the best way forward - better to talk to the people in person.

I have re-read this post. This was meant to be a helpful and constructive answer. On reflection I believe it was just that. Obviously some people think otherwise. I am sorry they feel this way but, at the risk of repeating what I said at the beginning:

[b]This is their problem - not mine.[/b]

doganjo

I didn't think anything else than your post was intended to be helpful and constructive. If anyone has been getting you at the show today I agree it is THEIR problem. why can't everyone just enjoy our breed without having to be so competitive that it turns them nasty?

highclare

Gay,
Remember it was me that started this thread and as far as I am concerned your oppinion was most welcome. I have know knowlage of anyone getting at you but what you said was your oppinion so please don't worry.
You are still a little star.

Gill and the Mabeleen

doganjo

There are some really nasty people in this world it would seem. I am disgusted; I have been on the end of abusing and bullying phone calls, and I am not happy about someone upsetting my good and very kind natured friend in this manner. If anyone has anything to say they should say it in public.

I agree entirely with Gay - grooming is personal choice, type is personal choice, I wouldn't leave my dogs on benches for long periods without asking someone I trusted to take the dog for a wee if it was necessary but equally I would be very angry if anyone took it off the bench without letting me know first - that's what mobile phones and paper and pens are for.

Paris M · Re: Lets get things straight

johnhod

Paris M

johnhod

Not at all.

"Surely" had me rolling on the floor, funniest thing I've read all week. Thanks

doganjo

Lets get things straight

Re: Lets get things straight