My Brittany hates my wife?

Waldo · My Brittany hates my wife?

Hi,
New to this forum and new to Brittany's and gundogs in general.

I have a female Brittany pup approaching 12 months old, have had her since she was 8-9 weeks old and she gives my wife a hard time. She nipps at her heels, jumps up at her hands arms and nipps at them and generally makes a nuisance of herself on enough occasions to be a problem.

She will occasionally try the same thing on me when she is playfull (all the time she does this she is happy as a pig in poo with the tail wagging, so no bad malice is intended) but I can generally settle her down and turn things around.

If I try to reprimand her while this is happening she just tends to play harder, my wife unfortunately doesn't have the skills or authority over her to settle her down and take control.

Has anybody had similar issues?

On the positive side she is a great pup (in my eyes) does OK at obedience class (when she feels like it - she is a pup afterall) and shows promise when given a run out in the field. I haven't taken her hunting yet, but intend to give her a run after some foxes in the next few weeks and will start her on deer next year? She does show a bit of reluctance to retrieve at this stage but hopefully that will come.

Thanks,
Waldo

Lin Dyke

I don't think she hates your wife. She is, perhaps, testing your wife to see who is the "alpha female" . Take a step back and let your wife do the feeding, with "a sit wait" before eating. I'm no expert and have always had dogs, apart from a minor diversion with an Irish Setter bitch way back in the mid 70's. Shocked

There are many much more experienced people than myself on this forum who will give you very good advice.

Britmania

You must instill obedience into your dog.
If your wife is alone with the dog while you are at work, she MUST be firm and discipline your dog the same way as you do (ie with the same commands for the same reason).
Go back to basics and teach her "NO" and "down" in particular. Dont progress onto anything else until you know she knows it properly.
Your girl has obviously learnt already that your wife is not firm and consistent in her discipline, so the nipping etc is like saying "I know you dont do anything drastic so I will do it again".

I would also strongly recommend no hunting until she is under control.
You will not endear yourself to any hunting companions or the locals in the area if you have an out of control dog just roaring around, chasing and doing its own thing.
When at obedience classes, insist on doing it correctly. The old saying "she is still only a pup" is forgiving her bad behaviour which defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.She is old enough now to be able to handle a firm hand, so dont be scared to expect more of her.
Start retrieving training at home now. Do a little with her every day and progressively make it harder.Brittany's are very bright and she will learn real fast.
I guess what I am saying is do basic training and retrieving practice a little each day - you will be suprised how fast it will build into a competent hunting companion who is a pleasure to be around and out with.
Get your wife to help you with training, let her see what needs to be done and with both of you in tune with what is being taught to your girl will make a big difference.Your wife will also be able to back up your training with the same expectations around the home.

Hope this helps, good luck and dont lose faith in your dog if things go wrong - just take a step back and return to something you know she does well.

Cheers Chris

guy

IMHO she is not testing 'alpha status' but is either excited or wants something. We had a similar experience with Ellie when she was about one year old - particularly if she wished for something - if she thinks it is time to eat or she wants to go outside for the toilet or because she has heard something and wants to check it out. Usually accompanied by raucous woofing. (Ellie is a very talkative dog). The other time she exhibits this behaviour is when Julia takes her to agility classes, here she will jump up and nip as she runs around the circuit.

As to solutions? - she is now two and the behaviour is much calmer - we rarely have nipping only the 'talk' - maybe because we understand her needs more and can sense when she needs a toilet break or just needs a quick dash around the garden after which life settles back to normal.

Watching my dogs together the younger ones will often seek to initiate play by grabbing an ear and pulling at it or sneaking up and nipping a rear leg. I think yours wants to play so perhaps you should preempt this by playing before it asks; if it nips make it it sit first and then play with it. Play is the reward for the sit, you are calling the shots. Even have a special toy that only comes out when you wish to play. I have heard of a trainer who used a 'swatch' (a plastic wristwatch) as the toy. Whenever he needed the dog to behave in a ring or elsewhere he would wear the watch and the dog stayed very focused on him Smile

Waldo

Hi, thanks for the comments. As I said, I'm new at this but am treating the whole experience as a challenge and persevere thru the tough periods but do enjoy the rewards as they come.
Yes I have noticed that if she plays up at class I can turn her back around by doing my job a bit better, I guess we're both learning at the same stage so there's bound to be the odd challenge.
My wife has read these replies so hopefully she can take some of this on board (it might sound better coming from someone else - hope she doesn't read this bit though)!
Thanks again,
Waldo.

Annie as admin

Welcome to the Forum, Waldo. Laughing

Hope you'll stay and enjoy reading about everyone else's problems too! We'll all have suggestions as you have already seen. My Brittanys all jump up and have a little friendly nip at my bottom, when they first greet me in the morning. My retaliation is to have a titbit in my hand, tell them all to sit (bums on floor instantly when food is around), then heel them out to the garden, they get their titbit, then off they go to see what had happened on their patch overnight, come back in for breakfast, and my bum is safe again!
Perhaps your wife could have a pocket full of cat treats and when the nipping starts throw a few on the ground to take the attention away from her briefly, then command sit for a few more to be given. As has been said before, obedience and calming influence is the key I think
Annie

Patricia

" obedience and calming influence is the key I think "

Definitely...A command given when the nip happens. like" Sit". Command obeyed, praise and maybe a tit bit..or clicker( ask Sue)
Take the mind of the dog to nip. Be one step ahead and be quick on the command.
I have had Brittanys for a long time ( since as a child) but still go to classes. It is actually amzing how much you can sharpen commands and exercises, but also bond and focus on handler/ dog rlationship. Like double time off lead, about turns...dog has to watch and be focused. Helps with all exercises. Very Happy

Annie as admin

I do a focus exercise that Steve Kimberley teaches - sit the dog and back out, walk in a circle round them, stopping every time the eyes move away from you, tehn carry on, again stopp immediately focus goes. Mine can ALL do it perfectly, but the focus disappears when hunting starts!

Patricia

I must say I agree with Chris that obdience is a very BIG part of the training. When things go wrong, back to basics...same as with a horse... Very Happy

guy

waldo
Why not get in touch with Bill Allen? ozbritt3@bigpond.com.au

The Plum

If you think this is a real problem. Ask your wife to very firmly say "No !" - and give her a small waterpistol to "shoot "the dog right in the face with. Then have her ignore the dog until she is ready to engage with it.

In my experience puppy biters have always turned into perfectly nice dogs but you need to control the game - not the dog. I actually encourage very young pups to bite my hand enclosed in a sock. The pup learns bite inhibition and then the sock becomes the training dummy and then it is put around a small dummy for retrieve purposes - a pup that will bite you can be taught just how hard it may bite. That can be a useful thing later in a dogs working life - in my opinion of course ! Laughing

The Plum

Waldo

We have tried water pistols, plastic bottles filed with stones etc. and all it does is excite her.
Last night when Annie (my pup) and I got back from obedience my wife went outside and Annie was jumping and nipping at her. My wife folded her arms and ignored her and Annie continued to jump, I diciplined Annie with some very firm NO's and got her to go to a spot where she sits for a pat, but it took a few efforts before she settled, but did get there.
I know a lot of people disagree with them but I do have a "e collar" primarily for use in the field (I can't afford to have her chase sheep or have a go at the snakes we have around here) and If I strap that on her in the backyard without even turning the thing on she is good as can be, she knows what is required I think I just need to unlock the secret?
Thanks to all for the input, much appreciated.
Waldo

Patricia

No Mouthing or nipping should be allowed. For what it is worth Wadlo, the action you describe sounds correct. If you ever watch" the Dog Whisperer" Ceasar Milan, he gives a command and teaches a calm energy. Laughing

I never let pups bite my hands. I give them a toy and swope.
The games are on my terms only. If things get out of hand, I ignore it or put it away. When badly behaved a firm " No" in a strong voice... Wink

Guy is right. Email Bill Allen from Melbourne, he is very very good and very friendly -on the American Forum. All his tips make sense.
Best not to mention the E collar here, some will think it is not politically correct !!! I know Bill " conditions" his dogs on snakes.

Patricia

Waldo, I have sent you a PM. with Bill's email. He is really good imo Laughing

The Plum

Waldo, if your dog responds to the E- collar by at once behaving well then you have very definetly incorrectly conditioned the dog to the collar. The idea behind the collar is that the dog does NOT know that it is connected to the "nic."

If you doubt this then ask on one of the U.S. forums they have collar conditioning and useage down to a fine art. I was at one time very much against use of the collar but I really do appreciate that if you live in sheep country an e-collar could be very useful.

Leaving aside the problem of your wife getting nipped for the moment I would like to suggest that you re- condition your dog to the collar by putting it on her for at least 2 hours every day for a minimum of a fortnight - a month would be better ...... and NEVER switching it on , never using it no matter what the bitch does wrong . Done often enough and for long enough the bitch will hopefully once more think of te collar as just something around her neck not as an instrument of correction. If I were you I would do that long before she is likely to meet sheep. Usually e-collars come supplied with training instructions - if you cant be bothered reading these please enquire about correct conditioning and usage on a U.S. website - you will not learn it on any website in Britain .

The Plum .

Waldo

I mentioned the e collar very cautiously as I know they are not very popular in the UK. I have however treaded very carefully with the collar and read all I could before buying one, the last thing I want to do is hurt or damage my pup in any way either physically or emotionally.
I am working on getting my wife to become more involved with my pup as I believe the problem lies more with the handler than the dog (gee if she reads this I'm in deep trouble).

Annie as admin

Sorry, Plumskin, but I think you may have that wrong! Some dogs, including my little bitch, cringe with the weight of the e-collar because it is so much different to their normal one. She is 7 now and has always cowered when she saw the box, and she never has it put on her now.
Annie.

The Plum

Hi Annie, the person who is best placed to say whether or not the collar has been wrongly used or whether perhaps the bitch is just sensitive to the weight of it is Waldo.

I based what I said on what Waldo told us. The bitch, although strongly rebuked , even mildly punished, continues to nip Waldos wife. That does not sound like an ultra sensitive bitch.
On the other hand, a collar, prematurely used probably would have the effect of subduing the bitch. It is very common for people not to give a long enough acclamitisation period before pushing the nic button. Yes the dog will respond but there is a good chance it will link the nic WITH the collar meaning it will continue with its bad behaviour WITHOUT the collar. This defeats the collars purpose for to get the required behaviour the dog always has to wear the e -collar.

Which of us is correct I don't know but e- collar use takes a bit of thought and a certain degree of patience before it is used. A dummy or switched off e- collar has to be on a dog plenty long enough to let the dog misbehave many times while wearing it before the button is pushed. This period can be weeks not days as claimed by the manufacturers sales bumph !!!

The Plum.

Waldo

Hi, I would definately not classify Annie (my pup) as sensitive, strong willed yes, sensitive no. I would probably tend to agree that I may have to re-condition her to the collar and start that process again. She doesn't cringe at the collar and is more than happy to have it on as the only place it comes out is when she gets to have a free run (hunting practice?) out at a TSR (traveling stock reserve) so she is probably associating the collar with something good to happen and puts up with the inconvenience but also knows she may be corrected?
Thanks again,
Waldo

Britmania

Barry and I have always thought of the "e" collar as a last resort only, if all other attempts at resolving a problem have been used up without success.
In all but one of the dogs we have owned over the past thirty odd years, a solution to the most persistent problems had been found without its use.
Then we had a GSP who was a brilliant hunter and trial dog. BUT when he got to about three/four years old,constantly disobeyed commands to stop chasing released birds in a trial. All the phsyco analysis under the sun was of no use, so as an ultimate last resort, we borrowed an electric collar. We read the instructions and followed them to the letter - including putting a normal collar on first, progressing to a heavier collar, then the "e" collar itself without being turned on, for a couple of weeks.
To cut a long story short, it did not resolve anything. Even when cranked up in output, the dog just registered the "ping" with a slight flinch, then a major flinch as he chased full bore.
This dog was so tough, he probably needed to be nuked by the jolly thing before it had an effect.
He was stopped from chasing by returning to basic obedience and instilling the "wait" command until it was so ingrained he did not think twice about disobeying the command.

Now that we own Brittany's, we know that the breed is different to the GSP and have never used an electric collar on any of them - we have never needed to even think about the option.

Please Waldo, try to resolve your problem without resorting to using one - she is only young and it could ruin your relationship with her for life.

Waldo

I guess I only brought the collar because I lacked confidence in my own ability, (perhaps the collar should be for the handler as they are the ones with the problem usually)? I have had 2 x dogs in my adult life (I'm now 46) and know I made a lot of mistakes with my last dog (border collie died @ 12 years old) so I haven't had a lot of dog training experience. I'm learning more every day (and this forum has helped tremendously) and enjoying the challenge. I'm not after a perfect dog (would be nice though) but if I can mold her into a good family pet and faithfull hunting companion in the field I would be happy.
Cheers,
Waldo

Victoria

Use an electric collar!!????? Shocked

????? !!!!!! For heaven's sake; a Breton being subjected to an electric collar???...in my opinion, anyone who puts one of those things on a dog deserves one to be tied to one's nether regions and zapped repeatedly until their eyes bleed...if that fails, made to sit on an electric fence with a wet bum and see how that gets their heart going...the puppy needs to be demoted...she is not the BOSS

Patricia

Well...E collars are certainly used in the US and France on Brittanys ...Here too though it is not publicised.
Sometimes it is necessary.

Britmania

E collars are used on all sorts of breed of dogs - the point is they are capeable of doing more harm than good in the wrong and/or inexperienced hands - and IMHO should never be used on young dogs merely because they are "stroppy" or "strong natured".

You mentioned you had a Border Collie Waldo. How did you get on with it as a youngster as they have a reputation for nipping and biting?
We owned and bred Borders (concurrently with our GSP's) for some twenty years and often had to discipline pups for nipping and biting.

Do you think the Brittany is worse than the Border collie was?

The Plum

If you can believe what it says on the tin and on what it says on a power output reader an e-collar turned up to its highest level of nic power is only about 1/10 th of the strength of an electric stock fence. That means that at maximum a dog can only receive one tenth of that shock. If the E- collar is cruel then E- fences are being at least ten times as cruel to many thousands of animals all around the world. Most sensible e-collar users do not use full nic power. A survey done on a U.S. gundog forum showed that most collar users set the sender unit at 1/4 to 1/2 of maximum.
This means that a dog would receive as little as 1/40th to 1/20th of what any sheep,cow,pig, goat etc. receives upon contact with an e -fence. If the E-collar is so cruel why aren't folk up in arms about the many times greater cruelty to other animals ??? Not only dogs can feel !

The Plum.

Britmania

I live on a small farm in NZ and we use electric fences all around our property. They are there to act as a deterrent to large animals to stop them A) leaning on fences and thereby damaging them (and themselves)and to B) limit their grazing area in times of lush growth.

I have seen my old gelding put his head over a fence to pinch grass on the other side.I checked and the pulse was on. Puzzled by how come he was cheating, I watched him more closely and discovered he was placing his muzzle within a whiskers distance from the hotwire. He judged when the pulse was shooting through, and in the interval between pulses put his head over the fence and grabbed a mouthfull. I promptly increased the pulse rate and he figured without getting a belt from the fence that it was not worthwhile trying to pinch anymore grass.
I currently have an eight month old foal who at an early age was carefully introduced until she sensed the pulse; she does not need to push on or lean into the fence to figure a pulse is going through it.
Barbed wire is much more cruel.

I have seen dogs when out on hunting trips, get zapped by an electric fence.They certainly let out a yell and in some cases have been put off ever going through wire fences again. The thing is, if the fence is shorting out on the line somewhere,often all wires- not just the top strand- will be "hot".

I repeat my opinion - Electric fences are like electric collars - OK in the hands of those who know what they are doing and never used exclusively with young animals.

The Plum

Hi Britmania, I'd call that a nicely balanced post. Very Happy

The Plum.

Victoria

I do not really see the revelance of comparing an electric fence with a electric collar...once hit by a shock from an electric fence, a dog will not generally ever again get another...but with an electric collar by introducing the collar over a period you are creating a situation where the dog comes to recognise the shock as a result of a behaviour not the collar causing the pain; this is maintained for a sustained period. I do not care what people think of my opinion (insane, imbalanced, blah, blah, blah) - electric collars should be banned. To use them on puppies is despicable. The problem as Britmania states, with an electric collar is the human operating it.

Victoria

Waldo

I promise never to mention collars again, the Border Collie I had did get nippy on occasion when younger (and again when old & cranky at times), he seemed to respond to the "pack" a little better once we ascerted authority over him. While he was a good friend and we all loved him, his training certainly lacked (yes, my mistake) and I am determined to get the most out of my Britt that I can.
Australian conditions are a bit different to the UK and NZ where most of these replies seem to come from and snakes here are an issue, if anybody has seen a snake lunging at their dog (as I have when I was young) they would be cautious too, if the collar helps in this regard then I'm prepared to give it a try.
Many thanks for the replies it has been most helpfull, looking forward to continue to learn from those more experienced than myself.
Waldo

The Plum

I don't like the idea of a collar being used on a young pup but in Waldos position with snakes and maybe with sheep, then, depending on the dogs behaviour I would not hesitate to use one.

I would also use one if faced with the situation many U.S. trainers face - snakes, sheep, porcupines,skunks, coyotes, large cats, bears -even alligators !!! Shocked

Aversion therapy could easily save the dogs life, I.M.O. it would either be cruel or senseless not to use it.

We have it pretty easy here in Britain and apart from wild pig in N.Z. too.

The Plum.

Annie as admin

There are wild pigs in Scotland. Rolling Eyes

Some idiot uip in the highlands with a huge estate and loads of dosh is "re-wilding" it. So he has a 20 foot fence all around it and some of it electrified too - I can't see how that is re-wilding - they are still in an enclosure - it's just a huge zoo, or at best a nature reserve. Our Zoo laws don't allow predator and prey to be in teh same enclusre unless killed humanely first so I don't know how he's going to get round adding wolves and bears to the sheep, cattle, deer, elk, boar etc already there. It was on TV the other night - anyone see it? I think an e-collar should be used on him.

I don't like e-collars but have to agree that if I can't find an amenable farmer with sheep to test Allez on with permission then I will use mine. Once or twice should be all it needs, it worked with Freckles jumping out of my field and disappearing for very worrying 3 or 4 hours. No way I want him shot if he decides to run after a sheep - and that is all it takesd - just an investigatory run to see what it is and a farmer handy with a shotgun nearby. Rolling Eyes

Victoria

Annie as admin

Victoria, as a matter of interest, presuming you have a lot of sheep down there, and possibly deer, also that you would come in fairly close contact with them during normal shoot days or field trials, how do you train dogs to ignore them? Admittedly, I would use the collar because I am not fit enough nowadays to run after my dog to stop him running after sheep. I didn't need to bother before because I've never trained any of the others for shooting, so they were able to run free in forest walks etc, well away from any livestock.
Annie

Victoria

Annie, where we shoot, along riverbeds etc, there are no sheep and we have never encountered deer (although we sometimes see their tracks) the deer are generally in the higher country (permits are required to access the different hunting blocks (no cost for the permit). We have sheep and goats here and the dogs know that they are not to bother them under any circumstances. Its a NO!!!
When we are not hunting but in the rough, Gaston is happy to give the odd hare a bit of shift but responds to the 'call back' whistle. When I have the gun with me, it means pheasant and/or quail. Where our local trials are held, there are no stock nearby as the P&S is held on a rough area, not grazed, adjacent to the river.

The Plum

In Britain there are wild pig in the Wye Valley area . They aren't in a pen they truly do run free. I'm told they are spreading out from there. I wouldn't like to get in ones way and I definetly don't want any dog of mine to be near them. I'd never forgive myself if one of my dogs got gutted by a pig.

The Plum.

Victoria

There is a considerable wild pig population in our state forests and timber forests in our high country...some 15 minutes drive from our home...the pig hunters have 'bailers' and 'holders'...it is the holders that can get very badly hurt...the bailers bail the pigs up, the holders go in and grap a leg or an ear, while the hunter goes in and sticks the pig...it all seems pretty barbaric to me but the guys and dogs love it Rolling Eyes

!!!! Some guys do not have holders just bailers and they use a gun to kill the pig, but the traditionists stick them. I have never been overly fussed with the taste of wild pig (a young weaner is about all I would want to eat).

Patricia

I was first introduced to E collars at a dinner party! Very Happy

My friend had Grands Bleus de Gascogne ( hounds ) and lived near the road.
She had E collars and tried them out on us on the wrist. Certainly did not cause as much shock as an eletric fence (which I also used for my horses.) The hounds would wear it because being hounds they did run off and could cross the road when with her.
The E collar, I am told- and agree with a very experienced French judge- is for the trained dog. Who blatantly disobeys and knows the commands given to him well.
It is very useful if you live in hare country...We have lots and lots here and at some stage a dog will chase for over a mile yapping away behind one and ...over the road. It is very handy then.
Squashed dog or collar?
It does not take very long for the dog to stop this undesirable habit.
Also, some dogs have the nasty tendency to chase sheep or lambs. Here the farmer is allowed to shoot the culprit. And rightly so..
Why should a dog have a higher life value than a sheep or any other livestock? Confused

I disagree that you should automatically use one to make life simple.
Again, in the US I have seen a Professional trainer demonstrating its use.
Much to Mr Bordet 's

.
He put it on his neck and it was pulsating... Razz

You put a collar on a young dog and use it a bit like a " Clicker" that buzzes to tell the dog he is doing fine Question

and on from there.
One dog ran its TAN with one on and the judge refuse to grade it with it.
Over there, tread mills- for conditioning- barrels for kennels, and all sorts of gadgetry are part of the dog secne.
Having seen those adevertised in our dog papers, I hope we don't get" Americanised" Evil or Very Mad

Like everything the collar has its use but in experienced hands.
Agree with Chris too Smile

Britmania

We farm sheep and our gundogs are taught from an early age that they are not to be interfered with. The only dogs allowed in with the sheep are our sheepdogs - over the years one of our Border collies and now, our
Kelpie/Huntaway cross "Lou".
Having said that, years ago, we discovered one of our GSP males was an excellent yard dog. He would bark on command and shift the sheep from pen to pen. This particular dog was also a dual show/field trial champion;but Sheik had many special talents and was a dream dog to have bred and owned ( he was also NOT the dog we tried an electric collar on. That dog was a completely different type of personality).

Down here in the South Island, we do come across sheep on hunting trips and out at the field trials - mostly because our open, flat terrain means we use a lot of privately owned land and get permission for access.

Our solution is again to rely on ingrained obedience. We have had the need to discipline a male dog chasing sheep, so to get the message across we have in the past, put a stroppy ewe in the stockyards and introduced the dog to her. The dog is immediately put on the back-foot (so to speak) and loses its cocky attitude. Sometimes a quick slap with an old sheepskin works - especially on the backside with a forceful "No" as the dog advances towards the sheep. I have heard of some who put the dog in with a niggly ram at tupping time - but I think this is a bit extreme.

These situations are again, disciplining OLDER dogs who know what the basic commands mean, but are testing the handler's authority. A young dog should never be put in a position where it is terrified or panicking.
If a young dog chases sheep, we would go back to repeating training of the recall whistle - it has got to sink in until a response is automatic.

I can appreciate your predicament with snakes Waldo, they are a lot more unpredictable and we have friends in Aussie who have lost dogs bitten by them. I have no experience at dealing with them because NZ is snake free, so hopefully someone on the forum with first hand experience will put on a post.

Mugi

I have used (and still do) use an E-collar on my WSS. I debated long and hard (with myself) before getting it but he does have issues that could end up with him being killed.

I introduced it with him wearing it for a month before I went out specifically training, he has a good recall 90% of the time and I found he very quickly upped his game, as soon as he recalled he was clicked and treated and now he not only knows the collar means he is going to free run I have also only once or twice had to use the vibrate option to remind him. Ok, a very potted history of how I use it but if it may help save his life it is a small price to pay.

Naomi

Chris and I considered using an E collar with Gunner (the Beagle) because he has ran off once too often and once was nealy hit by a car. I don't really like the thought of it (mind you I could use it for Chris and the kids too Twisted Evil

) In the end we decided on an extendable lead :( I'm still not sure this is the best thing as it's so restrictive.

Naomi