price of puppies

Patricia · price of puppies

A member called me a couple of days ago...
She asked me if I had seen the adverts for Brittany pups from imported lines? At £220... No, I had not...they were docked, chipped.
What do the Forum people feel about such prices?
In the Ad trader, you can't even get a " designer " cross bred for that..
When I think how enormously expensive the imports are...
Any thoughts??? Rolling Eyes

The Plum

Are they puppy farmed ? Where did they come from ? The price is low but if folk only want a pet then £220 is plenty to pay.

The Plum

guy

turned these up on google.

http://www.k9puppy.co.uk/PuppiesforSale/Brittany191.aspx

http://www.epupz.co.uk/search/pup...a=all&st=1&breed=Brittany

http://www.local.thesun.co.uk/sal...dog/-/pet_breed_brittany_spaniel/

http://stourling.googlepages.com/

Annie as admin

We have had problems with this one before - Venatrix.
Did you see the first link lab pups were almost three times as much!

Mugi

Some interesting points.

Now to me a phrase like "from imported lines" means little on its own. Chase is from imported lines - further back so is Mugi and I certainly haven't sustained the cost of importing. Tis like saying dog has x number of sh ch's in its pedigree - in itself it doesn't make a good dog or anything special.

For docked, chipped (possibly KC reg) the £220 means the breeder is unlikely to be making any/much profit (not that should be a primary motivator anyway) and to me it could indicate a number of things.

The breeder is literally covering costs only and just wants to home the pups.

The breeder hasn't ensured there is a market so is selling at a reduced rate in the hope of getting a home regardless.

From a personal perspective I like to know what the average going rate for the breed is and I would probably not approach breeders who were charging significantly more or less as I would be suspicious (although suspicious of what is harder to qualify).

With my own dogs (Mugi excepted) they all cost roughly the same. Freddy I paid full price for just to get him out of his situation, his breeder saw me coming but then again, I couldn't have left him. Brice was due to be £1000 but he then had his toe broken so he was reduced and as I lent his breeder some money for emergency surgery on his granny that was also knocked off his purchase price so ultimately he became the cheapest dog I have in initial purchase terms.

Purchase price from an owners perspective though should never be a primary consideration, in the grand scheme of things the initial outlay is far outweighed by running costs etc etc.

Patricia

So why the Labradors so much? You can pick one up anywhere...
Why is a deerhound so expensive?
I can see why a small breed requiring often a Ceasarian and small litter is expensive...
In Suffolk, £220 would not buy you a Springer.
How about the fact that if you cannot afford a dog, how about insurance, vet costs, food etc...?

Mugi

guy

In a free market economy the cost of something is price at which the seller is willing to sell at and the buyer buy at. If they don't match there is no trade.

I fail to see how someone who only can afford £220 for a dog rather than £650 (randomly chosen number) might be an unsound owner. I am sure there are many who might not afford a higher initial outlay but are more than willing and capable of providing for an animal on a day by day basis. If all else fails with regard to vets there are various charities that provide free cover.

I can think of a few people I would happily give one of my dogs to and others who could never offer me enough to have one.

I hope i haven't got the wrong end of the stick here Rolling Eyes

Naomi

I agree with you Guy just because someone has a lot of money to throw around it doesn't make them a suitable pet owner.

The breeders where I bought my Beagle asked a lot of questions but I could have been lying and once I paid (a hell of a lot) that was that, they have always been willing to give advice etc since but getting the Brittany was a different matter, we were invited to come and see other Brittanys asked where we go on walks and told lots about the breed and what to expect etc ... as you say Guy it's down to the breeders to vet the owners and no amount of money can make someone a good owner.

Naomi

Patricia

Does anyone out here breeds?
What is your reckoning on the costs of rearing a good litter?
As well as other costs???

Jayne Cutler

I think you are lucky to break even when rearing a litter and more so now if you want the puppies docked. The most important thing is the homes that they go to.

Jayne

Annie as admin

Well, I reckoned my last litter worked out at about £1 an hour payment if I had worked the same hours! And as for the stress at delivery time, and losing a couple of pups the emotional stress too, I really don't know why I am putting myself through it again.
I sold one of mine to a couple who said they could afford the puppy but not paying the money out all at once - so we devised an HP agreement over three months, rather than them waiting till they had saved. They could have renaiged when they got the pup but they didn't. I just had a feeling it was too good a home to miss out on - they had two sons, went walking in the hills and had an acre of garden all securely fenced. I believe they have now started picking up with him too.
Annie

lockedon67 · Prices.

I'm trying to look at this one from both sides, why should we pay through the nose for a humble pet but on the other hand why should breeders give away thier hard earned cash?
I cant help but think that its better to keep prices up.... if someone is willing to part with £500 then it stands to reason that they are prepared to give a better home.
Look whats happening within the falconry world, 15/20 years ago prices were very high and the standard of the sport even higher......nowadays any idiot can get into the sport, and rescue/rehoming is becoming a problem.

Just my thoughts........ oh, and I dont breed dogs

Annie as admin

Actually, you are making a lot of sense. We do seem to have a problem breeder giving pups away to gain fame with the affix. Don't know if anything can be donw about it but it will devalue the breed. The staandard cost of most pedigree (well bred ones) gundog seems to be around £500. If you allocate that over its lifespan - it isn't a lot. Even 10 years is only £50 a year!

eddieh · Re: Prices.

johnhod

Annie as admin

Well, yes, I agree these are added expenses - and considerable ones - but we were talking about the initial price I think

Patricia

Down South the prices of pups well exceed £500 for any breed. Apart from Springers. Way more. Confused

I agree the purchase price does not make an owner more responsible. It is after all a throw away society Crying or Very sad

But, going back as Lockedon says 15 or more years ago, did we not value the dogs or others more???
I still very much value a lot the hard work Stan Smith put into the breed and feel that it is devaluing it by selling it very cheap. I would maybe rather give it away. ( and I have done )
Going back to France( sorry again for the comparison) the better quality the dog ( ie trialer, ch in autumn or spring or the dam similar) fetch more money than the " run of the mill" Brittany without titles or achievements. Does it make sense? There are, of course, specific buyers for those puppies.
If a want a Jaguar, I am not going to pay Saloon car prices...That is, of course, only my way of thinking Wink

yarak

The only way I can see how people can sell puppies so cheap is if they own both the bitch and the stud dog so do not incur any stud fees, having said that their is still cost of complications in whelping i.e. cesar , inertia etc. plus cost of docking which I had my last litter of 6 puppy's legally docked as have shot gun licence and work my dogs on shoots etc,
and what cost around 50 pounds before docking ban, this time cost 265 pounds + micro chip at 6 weeks day light robbery in my opinion yes their is a bit of paper work to do but surely this dose not add up to these excessive charges.
Then their is the cost of rearing the pups and my pups get only the best Top quality complete + fresh meat, eggs goats milk etc, and I am sure that all the responsible breeders do the same, to give their pups the best possible start in life.
So even if you own both parent to the pups the costs are still their.
Unless you are lucky !!!! and incur no other charges and have tailless pups or keep the tails on, and feed basic rations to the pups.but I still think this would be selling the breed short, after all they are supposedly!!! pedigree HPRs.
As Pratricia said previously, in France and also in this and many other countries i am sure, people pay more for proven lines in any breed either working trailing or conformation etc and these line have been developed over many generations so why shouldn't breeders charge what their want, after all they have put all the work in, and if people want them they have to pay accordingly.
As for the back street breeders that I am sure a percentage of these breeders are who charge small amounts for their puppy's in order to sell them quickly and make a fast buck, with no attention or care for their lines or breeding, and the professional breeders who breed that many puppy's of different breeds that they can afford to give them away,
don't suppose we will ever stop or can stop this.
All we can do is hope their is more of us who strive for the perfect Brittany (if one exists!!!!!!!!!!) and breed in our own opinion from quality to quality and not for quantity.
So no I do not agree with selling Brittany's cheap but if they tick all the boxes of a good breeder then I suppose what can we say only are they a registered charity LOL Laughing

Britmania

Breeding for quality and not quantity is a motto often seen in Kennel advertisements - and how often is it simply not true? Unfortunately, there will always be opportunist breeders who see a market for their product (whether it be "designer" dogs or a rare breed) and charge top price for it, regardless of quality.
In Brittany circles here, it is frustrating to have "pedigree" pups with "no papers" advertised. They also appear in North Island pet shops, and I know of one instance where the owner traced the breeder of her Brittany after asking the pet shop for the details!!
What is even more annoying, is pet shops asking very high prices - and getting them.
The latest problem to emerge is overseas petshops recruiting NZ residents to act as buyer for them, with the intention of pedigree pups being bought and onsold (at grossly exhorbitant prices) to yet another overseas buyer.Only pedigree dogs are being targeted.
The only way I see to protect the ongoing future of dogs I breed will be to endorse the pedigree so that it can not be exported. Obviously, in a genuine case I would not do it, but unless the overseas buyer contacts me directly and agrees to be verified, the pedigree will be endorsed.

Gone are the days when we were able to take puppy buyers at face value, get a genuine price for quality breeding and recognition of the effort that goes into producing quality pups from proven parents.

The fashionable trends and status symbols that have infiltrated the dog world have made it a lot more competitive and cut throat out there.

The Plum

johnhod

I suppose you just flood the showring with dogs with your kennel name and hope that a couple of them do well.

Lets say, for example, in a breed with such small numbers showing as the Brittany I was to put forward 60+ dogs in an 8 year period I reckon I'd have to have a good chance of getting a few well placed.

Annie as admin

Exactly - pity she doesn't do it in trials too!

The Plum

I had no idea that was going on . Whoever is doing it must be bloody desperate for a little bit of fame. I have no axe at all to grind in this but even I can see that it is likely to ultimately be bad for the breed if these dogs are not being work tested.

The Plum

guy

Annie as admin

That's what I mean by up to date information - I need, or rather Donald needs FT results to be sent for the list on teh website.

I have no idea which dog you are talking about, Guy, because I don't have the information you mention. PM me please.
Annie

Ghilliegumdrop

Not only that at least one of her dogs has a COM........

Ghilliegumdrop

The blasted button has gone missing again.

Meant to say that the dog is in her ownership as well so she must be doing some working with them. Perhaps we should check before saying anything about someone Question

Annie as admin

I think we may be thinking of different persons but either way, we must get up to date working inormation so if anyone has a list of COMS or any other awards achieved in the last two years can they send them to me or Donald please. And incidentally no names have been given
Thanks

Ghilliegumdrop

No, we are thinking of the same person...I know exactly who you mean and I don't think you need to use a name as every one seems to know just who it is we are talking about Exclamation

Patricia

Joanne speaks a lot of sense here... Laughing

A well bred and reared litter is costly but if anyone wants just " a Brittany" with no "CV" then that is not too difficult to acquire -as a number of people are willing to sell such animals.
But the same applies to all breeds after all.
I am now back from France with my new bitch, a Lurky des Sources Claires grand daughter whose close relatives also include my old import Gallo's lines. (grand father of Dual Ch Amber)
I believe great care was taken when importing stock into the UK and this will hopefully continue to uphold the dual qualities of the breed.
When I go on holidays it is very tempting to do little detours to see what promising litters such as " 8 points" ones look like and discuss the progression of the lines with the most dedicated French breeders.
Such work is not worth only £220!!! Rolling Eyes

Anne Eissing · new bitch from Lurky des Ources Claires

Patricia, what´s the pedigree of your new bitch, who´s the mother? I´m very interested in french pedigrees and I like the breed of des Sources Claires very much. I think about mating my bitch with Nat du Bois de la Draye, a liver-white stud, a son of Grenn des Sources Claires. But the owner lives in the South of France. So know I will take "Venus du Bois des Ecrivains" from Jacques Daniel. I like him and his mother Reglisse very much.

Patricia

Anne,
She is Chriss de Sous Les Viviers, a line I am very fond of. She is by Siam des Rives de L'Autan (Lurky X Hulla de St Thurial, sister to Hubac and my Gallo)
On the dam side, Oura de Sous Les Viviers( Heol X Havane de Janville de la Quenoulliere)
She is line bred to Crak.
Now bought a tailless male, by Artee de La Mare Bourcy( Lascar de Keranlouan)and the dam is Ostine de la Mare Bourcy. Both parents make this litter "8" points. Artee being now a Ch on wild game under the age of 3.
I had pick of 2 litters, Mr Joret is an amateur and very nice to hang on to this pup for me. All the breeding can be seen on the livre d'elevage.
This is not just a tailless dog, but a pedigree which I liked having Keranlouan, Kerveillant and St Thurial blood. Patrick Morin told me it was a good choice! Another of my mentors! Wink

Patricia

Patricia

By the way too...Nat and Venus are naturally tailless...

Annie as admin

Pat, for the benefit of our newer owners, can you explain what you mean by '8 points'

Patricia

An "8 point litter". In the case of the parents of my puppy to come:

Copied fromn the French CEB site. A dog goes from 1-6 points. the more points the more the dog has achieved. 5 and 6 points out of 6 are for the "Elite". These are animals who reproduce dogs with high scoring points ie, passing their qualities onto their progeny Laughing

4/6 is " recommended". Both the parents of the pup I have chosen are 4/6. You add it together, so an " point litter". That is not too common especially in both parents.

from the CEB>
This is the third interesting degree of the scale, scoring 4 points. To get this scoring the dog must :

have succeeded the confirmation examination ;
have been rated as "Excellent" both in a show where the judge is an expert of the breed, choosen by the committee of the Club de l'Epagneul Breton and at the yearly National Breed Show (the "Exposition Nationale d'Elevage du Club de l'Epagneul Breton") or an equivalent show ("Super Speciale"). The awards must be obtained with two differents judges ;
have succeeded the "REP" test (Deep water retrieving test).
present a HD rating not worse than "B" (= fair).
Moreover :

males must have won 2 EXC (or 1 CACT or CACT) both in springtime and autumn trials ;
females must have won 1 EXC both in springtime and autumn trials.

Good idea is it not? Gives you some clue as to the working ability and conformation.

price of puppies

Prices.

Re: Prices.

new bitch from Lurky des Ources Claires