| Archive for The Brittany Forum For all friends of the versatile Brittany |
| guy |
temperement testhttp://www.atts.org/testdesc.html |
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| doganjo |
This part of the test concerns me a little - there is no mention of the distance this is done from. A gundog is trained to accept gunfire in a measured manner, not at random like this. I would think this test might frighten some dogs to the degree they might not afterwards be suitable shooting companions. I can't see the point of a test like this for a pet dog. |
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| Victoria |
[quote="doganjo"]
How do you mean? When I am birdscaring on the vineyard, the gunfire ranges from random to frantic. I guess my dogs are used to the lulls and volleys of the shotgun among the grapes...even when hunting, particularly after fur or duck, the gunfire is not exactly predictable. At the peg, there is a degree of deliberation, I agree. All due respect, but I do not think I would book my dogs in for this test. At least they take the dog's breed into consideration. Would not most caring dog owners already have subjected their canines to some of the situations outlined as part of their socialization. A walk around at the local show day should just about cover it! |
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| guy |
Annie - they stipulate a well hidden person with the gun - so that won't be close. I know you have a sensitivity to this subject after an officer of the BCGB some years ago let off a 12 gauge over puppies without ensuring sufficient preparation had been made, rendering several gun wary and/or shy.
The report from a .22 is of completely different from that of a shotgun. I have heard of several dogs that find a .22 aversive but are OK in the field. What I found interesting was that an independent body was doing tests on adult dogs and recording and publishing the results. |
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| doganjo |
Yes, Guy, you are right about that. Freckles has been terrified of gunfire since that incident,as has Soufee, but strangely enough the starting pistol doesn't faze Freckles at all
Victoria, what I mean is that any gundogs I know have been introduced to gunshot gradually and in fact all the training books tell you to do so. |
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| guy |
have you tried to overcome this - acclimatisation CD's or linking being fed with loud noises? | ||
| doganjo |
No I haven't. I must admit it's a pity as she is so obsessed with hunting, holds a great point and retrieves anything!! At 8 is it worth it? I suppose if she'd got that third ticket I might have tried harder. | ||
| Mugi |
Annie - Freckles is a spring chicken compared to when Moo started. If you both enjoy it she is still entitled to earn her SGWC to prove a point!
I was advised to first link a shot with food as a puppy and from quite early on Chase has heard gunfire but always with either food or hunting or a retrieve so it was never just a noise. Piper needed to be assessed quickly as harsh as it sounds he needed to be gun-sound as I didn't have room unless he could work. John A kindly shot over him with me throwing retrieves, initially a fair distance away and finally at a realistic rough shoot distance. Noise without reward can be scary but for some it matters not a jot and I am now lucky having 4 dogs in my home who are not noise/sound sensitive after 14 yrs of fearing this time of year. |
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| doganjo |
Perhaps you're right, Sue. I might just ask Andy to help as he absolutely thrives on challenges. | ||
| Victoria |
It is very interesting how different calibres make different noises and decibel ratings...the different barrel lengths on the shotguns, even diifferent makes of guns have different sounds when fired, the pump action to the side by side...the Ruger is distinctive to the Winchester; the .270 has a crack like a stockwhip, the ever trusty old Enfield .303 completely different, and some of the high powered .22's of today have something of a whizz..
I have been so lucky that the breeders of my dogs, being hunters, have introduced the puppies to loud noise including gunfire, bells etc at a very early age...one festoons their play area with different sounding bells so they grow up with the sound of bells in their ears. I am really sorry Annie that your dogs are like this, especially through what seems a very unfortunate incident by people who you would presume to know better...and I understand it can be very difficult to remedy in some breeds...because the Breton is so intelligent and prey drive is so strong, I think that gun shyness is probably alot easier to overcome than some breeds...if the dog can associate the chasse with the noise and all the reward etc that goes with it they would overcome this much easier. Maybe a thread on this could be started because I think it is a very interesting topic and one of huge importance to those of us who shoot. My lot associate the rattle of the gun cabinet key from its hiding place with a hunt, not a hunt with the gun. |
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| Victoria |
http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/gunshy.html
this is worth a read. |
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| doganjo |
Thanks, Victoria, I'll sit down later and read that right through - but this section came up to meet me straight away.
Freckles is definitely NOT the timid type. She is scatty, and very high spirited, barks a lot, but is certainly not scared of things she understands. I think that is the problem - she doesn't understand that the noise a gun makes won't harm her and will give her a job to do and a trophy to bring back to Mum. How do I get round that one if I don't shoot myself? The starting pistol isn't any good as I've nowhere to legally use it her anyway. I did ask my closest neighbours but I wonder if some of the further away ones might think it was real gunfire? |
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| Mugi |
I think your best bet there is Andy Annie - she doesn't need to learn on a starting pistol she needs to make the final connection for the job and that will either work or not. Andy is best placed to help IMVHO.
You need to have someone who will not let you colour her perception (something I am sure I did with Freddy who was terrified of noise) and will look at the problem afresh. At the end of the day I haven't seen how 'bad' she is and only you know whether it is fair to her to try. |
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| Patricia |
American test...hummm...Don't care for the tests one bit! As for the umbrella bit, hummmm  All puppies start with different social skills depending on how experienced their owners are and what they subject them to.( ie Victoria's breeder who had lot of noises)
How often would you come across a bucket of stones 
Anyway, I can vouch for Anne's Freckles and her bad experience, sadly she was not the only one and one of my pups belonging to an experienced lady took fright and bolted into the wire of the field where we were sitting. I caught her on route. I can assure you that line is FAR from gunshy in any way. Having a well balanced dog depends on its environment and the first 6 months of its life, what happens later will be a little less damaging. We never shoot a loud shotgun near by, and always associated with a bird thrown and whilst the dog is busy hunting. And also always have loud noises whilst babies so they don't worry. |
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| Victoria |
Interesting stuff...one of the things that drew me to Dionee as a puppy of five weeks old was that while her siblings were all asleep in various places, she was out exploring and I thought this is the puppy for me...I do agree that some are born less bold..you see it even in sheepdog lines, not just our gundogs; I have heard of a Labrador with no interest in field work at all...I guess they are as varied in temperament and interest as we are...I am not a bold driver, much to the frustration of some of my passengers but having worked in A & E in another lifetime (!!) and seeing the often ghastly results of people's rashness, I think I will stick to the speed limit!!
I often wonder if a puppy's drive or temperament has anything to do with their place in the birthing...Dionee was born first and was known to be a teat robber later on...!! Maybe she was just born with bad manners 
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