guy
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training days, a handlers point of viewI find I get the most out of a day when I have a particular problem/s I wish to address and can seek advice for that /those. Generic 'training' days where different topics are covered I find far less use as my dog is never at the stage the trainer is discussing, so although of interest is not relevant to my dog.
The next thing I find is not all good handlers are good trainers; they often know what they are doing but not necessarily why. The days that are the most productive are those where the trainer is most focused on the handler and dare I say it where a trainer is prepared to call a spade a spade. (but this only works when i have respect for the ability of the trainer in the first place)
Days where I stand in a line and wait while a particular dog/ handler have a problem ironed out at a distance are anathema to me - there is learning to be had and the whole group needs to gather around!
I find it useful if a trainer can either demonstrate a technique with his/her dog or can do the same with mine - I am quite a visual learner and like to see as well as do.
The most successful days (for me) have in effect been 'facilitated' rather than 'taught' by the trainer. By this I mean a dog/handler have their go and are invited to provide a review back to the group who then in their turn comment. Any points not raised by the participants are highlighted by the trainer. I find I remember quite a lot more this way - but that just happens to suit me.
Just a few rambled thoughts - I wonder do others have any views on what they want from a training day and how they like to learn with their dog.
Do people like the big group so they can get lost or do they prefer the small group where there is nowhere to hide?
Just wondering.
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Patricia
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A most interesting post, and spot on 
On a purely personal basis. I prefer a small group and a trainer with a good sense of humour telling you -and showing you- what is going wrong without being offensive! I also have to have the most profund respect for that trainer and he/ she will have had to have proved their worth in the field for me to even contemplate listening to them.
I have been around horses for quite sometimes and am distrusting naturally of people who call themselves trainers.
" proof of the pudding" and all that. I also like the exercise to be visual as I don't always apply well what I read 
Again, I would have a tendency to do like Guy and have small group lessons or even private even if it means saving up.
I have never forgotten my lesson with Rory and getting told to be " on the whistle" far more quickly than I was to stop a chase after flush. I dreamt about it all night! Next day I was onto it.
Also if you learn something well and it has been pleasurable, you are more likely to return and do it more and more to get better- or rather improve -your dog-
So for me, respect and enjoyment to learn under a trainer to even enter.
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kandjt
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I have to be in agreement with all what you write, I much prefer a one to one aproach with a trainer I trust and who doesn't fudge any issues that you might have. Experience has shown me that 9 times out of 10 I'm at fault rather than the dog and I want a trainer who will tell me straight.
I do take young dogs to group training, but have found that after a while my dogs get bored and through this it can set their training back rather than bring it on. When I see this happening I stop taking the dog to group sessions and organise individual training. I enjoy the social side of group training, but after all it's is dog training and often I find that I am busy talking and not concentrating fully.
A fair number of years ago I followed some advice from Bill (the Plum) who advises you to go to trainers of different gundog disciplines to get a fresh insight into your training. I've taken my dogs to both labrador and spaniel specialists and have learnt so much, even after 25 years of training gundogs. I can recommend the experience.
Keith
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doganjo
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Being a complete novice at gundog training (I have done obedience and agility previously with both my Cockers and Brittanys, but have only been gundog work training for about 2 years) I find both group and 1 to 1 training sessions beneficial. I learn visually too - have never been a bookworm  In addition my hearing isn't as good as it was, so Guy is correct that sometimes in group sessions the trainer can be too far away for the others to learn from the one that is getting a problem sorted out - but all it needs is for you to ask the trainer if you can all come closer. He or she is not a god, we are all human. I have done this and was given an apology for us others being left out. It is usually just deep concentration on the part of the trainer that causes this to happen.
Perhaps we need to make a list and offer it to the Committee so that they might tailor our own Training days, it may also be useful to other Clubs. Would someone like to offer to take this on please. I am in the middle of both Choir and BCGB book-keeping at present else I'd have offered.
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johnhod
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I don't object to training under a variety of people (if I haven't got a particular problem to iron out) as I know I have lots to learn and if I can pick up even one useful tip in a general open training day that's fine by me. I can always chose to ignore the parts that aren't or don't seem to be relevant. If I want to work on a particular issue then I will try to find a trainer who I trust, or one who comes recommended, and explain the problem to them before booking a one to one. Like Keith I tend to find that the problem rests with me rather than the dog and I need someone to point it out often in strong terms
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Des O'Neile
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I used to assist with Pointer and Setter training days and it struck me a long time ago that there should, generally speaking, be two levels i.e. Introduction and Trouble Shooting. The Introduction is more about explaining to the novice trainer/handler what the whole thing is about and the Trouble Shooting is what's been suggested above sorting out specific problems with specific dogs. There is no reason why a fair number of people couldn't be in the Intro Group with one trainer but the smaller the groups for the trouble shooting sessions the better.
I have to say that I find it difficult to get people to grasp that how you would trouble shoot a problem can be very different from how you would train the particular evolution in the first place.
I like the general attitude of the comments above but with HPR's in general and maybe Brittanys in particular there are more GENUINE dual purpose dogs about. If you saw some of the show pointers that people, some of whom only ever intended to work their dogs, were sold by less that wholy honest breeders you would be amazed. It would have been more than once that if I had been totally honest with my reply to " What would be my next best step" the answer should have been "Shoot the dog and buy a working one." That is not really a side swipe at the dogs more at the people who bred them and sold them as workers knowing full well that they weren't up tp the job.
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sallie
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| Quote: | | I much prefer a one to one aproach with a trainer I trust and who doesn't fudge any issues that you might have. Experience has shown me that 9 times out of 10 I'm at fault rather than the dog and I want a trainer who will tell me straight. |
Ditto, couldn't have put it better myself.
I have no problem with parting with money as long as i know i am going to get what i have paid for... the only trainers i go to, or have gone to, are people who are proven handlers themselves or work with gundogs on a regular basis. I loath group work where you are standing around whilst a handler is being taught the same thing over and over again - dogs in this situation become bored and unresponsive, as do i.
We all have to learn the basics - i understand that everyone and every dog are individuals. I think that group work for me only works at the beginning of training where the dogs and owners are stimulated by group experience; after that i feel that the only way to progress is to get out there and work to find your weaknesses, then under a good experienced trainer iron out your faults.
There again i can only talk with respect from a working dog not a field trial dog... i expect that there is a lot more polishing off required for this.
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Victoria
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How I envy your training days...I attended a training day put on by the appropriate gundog group and never again will I attend one...I learnt more from an old-timer in the half hour we waited in an old shed for a tremendous downpour to pass than I did the whole day. The prejudicism towards my breed was not hidden...
The rare times that Chris and Barry (Britmania) (long time trialists) have so kindly spent with me with my dogs have been like precious gems and I am so grateful to them....
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