Training tips.

Andrew B · Training tips.

Would it be possible to have a training tips section for showing and field work?

Andrew B

Stupid me,i spelt training incorrectly. Embarassed

Annie as admin · training tips

Ok sounds good to me - why don't you start teh ball rolling. I';; set up a new topic.
Annie

Annie as admin

Does no-one have any tips they want to pass on to help others?
Admin

Patricia

Yes!!!
What is the right or wrong way to start a young Brit??
Passion and hunting from babies onto game to develop the passion Laughing

or: obedience in the field with drills of steadiness and progressing exercises???
This is first and foremost a hunting dog, retrieving comes second, it is not a Spaniel or a Retriever.( or get one of those!!)
French way or English way???
Pointing high on the priority!!! Razz

Robot???
Food for thought!!!

Annie as admin

I always tell my puppy buyers to instill basic obedience from the start, and rightly or wrongly I also tell them the pup doesn't need any free running till it is 4/5/6 months old, that a large garden or yard is plenty till then. A flexi gives them plenty freedom till that age. Just wish I'd followed my own advice Embarassed

Patricia

Well I am the opposite. I take my pups out free( they are never on a lead until 4 or so months old) in the fields. one or two of them. they will always follow because they know their security zone.
They use their nose and develop their hunting senses. smells, experience all sorts. Even paddle in shallow water when young. Introduce them to quails when little too though they are not allowed to " have them".Always short walks. Switch " brain" onto game mode.
Training starts at 8 months properly depending on nature of pup. Laughing

Annie as admin

I am not talking about you in particular, Patricia - you know how to train them. Many people buying a Brittany for the first time will not have your facilities and if they let them start hunting right at the beginning they will never gain control over them. Not all Brittany pups will be worked or live on a farm, so I still believe they have to ensure the pup will sit, stay, recall before being allowed off to hunt freely. It has worked fine with all the pups I've sold. Each new owner has been given this advice, and seem to be happy with it.
A

Patricia

"Not all Brittany pups will be worked or live on a farm,"
Fair comment. I still say it is easier when they are baby puppies to take them out as they readily follow. Once they can run much faster it gets harder. Puppy socialisation and training classes.
I think people have them too much on lead and when they are older, they run off!

Britmania

For what it is worth, I think most new owners want to know what makes a Brittany "tick" and the best way to get on with their dog.
Regardless of what the future plan is for a pup, we tell all our new puppy owners to instill basic obedience at an early age. There are two reasons for this:
1) If you want to show your puppy, it needs to be taught correct behaviour so that it is a biddable, friendly puppy that gets on with everybody. I think an out-of-control youngster in the showring and on the show grounds is asking for trouble - bad habits will be hard to get on top of later.
2)If you want a good companion dog who will be part of the family or will be your best hunting mate - it needs to know who is the boss/leader right from the start. Being under control in a hunting situation could save your dogs life. Same as control in the city streets could save your dogs life.

By all means, free running is fine - so long as it is in a confined,safe area and is not for a prolonged period.

I think a section on handy hints for show training and field/hunting training is a great idea.

eddieh

This is all too relevant to our situation at the moment. We kept Tegen on a lead whilst walking until she was a few months old. Her recall was fine in an enclosed area so we thought we'd try letting her off in a local wooded area working on the assumption that she wouldn't be able to go too far without losing sight of us and wouldn't feel happy about that. Wrong. She couldn't give a monkey's. She didn’t mind being out of site at all and was jumping over ditches plants and other obstacles more than I felt was good for her. She was not so much a Ferrari as a Mitsubishi Evo. This has remained a problem and I'm hoping it is something that I can begin to address next week.

Remi is now just under 14 weeks old. Since we’ve been walking him, we have dropped his lead on a few occasions if away from roads. Yesterday we had a short walk round a local nature reserve. Shortly after starting I noticed that he was walking next to me as my wife had let go of his lead. He walked with us for most of the walk which was more of an amble really and waited close by when we stopped on one or two occasions. I hope that we can continue walking him like this and build on it

I know we are talking about a different breed but my setter was first let off under the same circumstances as Tegen and wasn’t a problem (apart from when she took exception to a GSD and chased it into the woods, getting lost for about two hours).

I’m not trying to argue a point as I appreciate that I have next to no experience compared to all of you. I just thought that these experiences might provide points to ponder.

Patricia

Having had several pups and running one on usually...This what I do.

I know many people are not as lucky as I am but I would then take the pup to a fairly safe place for it to run. And as soon as it is vaccinated.
Because a young pup is not confident ( or nowhere near as much) I would let it loose for 10 mns or so. I always bend down and praise, plus give a piece of cheese.and a cuddle.
In the home, I don't let him/her be bad mannered , jump on furniture, barge past me through doors, srounge and demand at the table. I do not tolerate pulling on the lead. When it is about 4 months or thereabout, I put a light flexi on it. It will do the " rodeo" but then it will get used to it.

It is a dog not a child. If naughty I " growl" at it...
Because I have access to 220 acres of fields my life with Brittanys is simple. They run, are never on lead and as pups go for a 5, 10 mns sniff in the fields. Pretty young they follow instinctively.
None pulls on the lead. I incorporate obedience in their exercise. Sit, recalls, heel to lead. We progres to game later but that does not apply to pet dogs. You have to make sure the dog sees you as the most important thing and that must mean pleasure.

I have had imported dogs which have had , in some cases, little knowledge of things. Being bright it does not take them long. Because they are frustrated, they need a LOT of exercise. That release endorphins, the happy hormones. When you are grumpy yourself, go for a walk or run, I guarantee you will feel better.
3/4 of the rescue dogs are passed on because they do NOT run enough, are frustrated. and naturally run off.
Don't forget when you buy the breed, these are still bred to hunt, so what does one expect? Crying or Very sad

They are not like the Cocker or other, split in 2 types. Twisted Evil

Incidentally if you look at some who have show type Cockers in France, some have field awards with them. And they still look like a Cocker. Laughing

I feel the breeder should ask what access to fields, or large areas of nature the future owner has access to.
Take a Brit when a teenager in fabulous smelling places and see what happens if it has been on a lead always!! dontknow

If all else fails, try to contact ie the breeder, or a good HPR trainer and have a few lessons. That is their job and you and your dog will be happier for it. Very Happy

I agree with Chris( sorry I changed your sex Wink

)

Victoria

Yes, please make a new heading for this one...it was written with some pomposity from the author in the NZ Pointer and Setter Club mag about 'getting back to basics'...in reply, I wrote that newcomers may not be able to get back to the basics (of training) simply because they may not know what the basics are.

Annie as admin

Well said, Victoria, I've been trying to get that across to a number of people. Rolling Eyes

Victoria

I must say that I have been so very very fortunate to have gotten puppies from such excellent breeders and those puppies both came to me with basic manners already in place....sit, come, noise desensitized (even bell orientation!), house trained!!!!!the list goes on...Patricia, I introduce my puppies to the lead earlier than what you say, simply because of the prospect of showing them as baby puppies (here this is up to 6 months of age) Smile

. I have a collar on them (just for five - ten minutes every day at about 10 weeks) they are not led or restrained in anyway, just so they get the feel! Manners....they are made to wait at gates, sit at the meal bowl while I place their food in it: wait in their kennel/crate, told to go (as in leave their abodes/go through the gate, etc). I think the big thing is allowing them to learn to TRUST you right from the start. And RESPECT you!! Because our breed is so intelligent, these little tests everyday are good for those sassy little heads. And even if it is them accompanying you to bring in the washing, you can make it an adventure for them. And, the major off shoot of this is it is DELIGHTFUL time for us too Smile

.
I have never really been a fan of food rewards...(my rationale behind this is 'what if you find yourself in a situation where you have no foody reward") I just give heaps of cuddles and praise. It is so easy with the Breton cos it is in their nature to want to please.
But, they are a hunting dog....enter the NOSE!! Orientation and exploration... Smile

The Plum

Sorry to be a bit late entering this debate ,I've been "lurking" for some time now sort of getting the feel of things. I belong to the let them loose while they are very young school of puppy training. My pups run loose in fields and woods. Yes I do have bother from time to time getting the more adult dogs to return but so do the train obedience first brittany folk ! Laughing

I don't think there is a "must do it this way method" of pup training , we all do what suits our own personalities and our own circumstances.

I happen to like working my dogs so I try to train with the idea of having a shooting dog at the end of it all because thats what the dogs are meant for.

May I ask while on the subject of work why this forum does not have a dedicated "work" section. Bits and pieces of the forum deal with work subjects but there is no actual work section ??? Idea

Maybe I'm the only one on here that has any trouble controlling my Brittany or sorting out retrieving etc. ? Where am I supposed to ask specific work questions ?

The Plum

johnhod

Hi Plum. I suppose the place to put your questions is in Tips and Ideas, although the title seems to indicate that you are offering tips rather than asking for them. Don't tell Admin I said this, but wherever you post someone will see it and answer.

eddieh

Ghilliegumdrop

Hi Plum
What breeding is your Brittany and do you have any pictures Question

Annie as admin

Annie as admin

By the way, you are very welcome to the forum, Plum. You are not the only 'lurker' - I do wish people would join in rather than 'lurk' - it's such s horrid word, but I WILL use it Twisted Evil

There are a number of people who work their dogs on here but please remember that our breed is dual purpose(well, multipurpose really I suppose Rolling Eyes

) so, many that show also work - Patricia, Alithea, John, Guy, Jan, me trying to if I can get an 'in' into shoots now I've moved, and also do Agility with them as well as other disciplines.
Have you been to any Club events? We do have quite a few nowadays
Annie

eddieh

It's all beginning to make sense now. Admin is always watching........ You announce ,in a threatening tone of voice, that you are much nearer to us all.........
There isn't a room in your new house with the number 101 on the door is there? Twisted Evil

Annie as admin

Of course!

eddieh

The Plum

The pedigree is around somewhere - unpronounceable French names all over the place ! Rolling Eyes

I've got a couple of photos , I'll figure out how to post them . To be honest I'm usually far too busy hanging onto my hat while attempting to train a Brittany to remember to take a foto ! I think I'd need more arms and hands and far faster legs to get a foto of Whizz the devils own Brittany in action ! That isn't her right name , its just sort of developed --- along with a few others that are unprintable ! Shocked

Standing still fotos don't interest me much , I like to see working dogs working .

Is your cat Brit proof or do you keep it separated from the Brittany ?

The Plum

Annie as admin

Both my cats are ANY dog proof - they don't run! They turn their bottoms to the oncoming assailant and the urge to sniff their bottoms is too great to resist Laughing

, puts off all chasing instincts Wink

Clever cats Rolling Eyes

Ghilliegumdrop

Our dogs find it very difficult to get a rise out of our cat, she just sits there and watches them distainfully Exclamation

Would you like some training tips as I am sure that Annie and others on here would be very willing to help you....Annie,for instance, has done wonders with her dog and hopes to go and see this guy that lives near her so she can start working him [the dog] on shoots.
Is Whizz your first Brittany or have you had them before Question

Annie as admin

Thanks for the compliment Jan, but I doubt if Bill will agree with you! Wink

Hoping to see him later this week, so will try to update Allez's trainign diary from time to time. Rolling Eyes

Ghilliegumdrop

I don't know, Bill will no doubt tell you what he thinks if you don't do as he says.......just like what I do Exclamation

I shall be very interested as to how you get on with him as I feel he could be a cantankerous old b....r at times Twisted Evil

Anyone else on here had dealings with Bill Thayne [he goes onto the HPR forum] from a training point of view. Annie and I went over to see him before SKC and he has some lovely ground that he is able to use. I am pleased to say he was quite impressed by Ghill's working....apart from the fact she went a bit to far out and became a little bit deaf as per usual Rolling Eyes

Annie as admin

I'm saying nothing - he lives too close for me to say he is a cantankerous old b - - - - d Laughing

The Plum

I had a Brittany before then I got bitten by the German bug and tried some of their dogs. Then I got Whizz a couple of years ago. She came on well to start with but got taken walks by some non shooting relatives and was allowed to chase everything in sight. I'm still trying to repair the damage but without much luck because she is a family pet and gets taken out by just about everyone. As fast as I fix it they break it ! Mad

She has been on shoots and has done the full H.P.R. thing on pheasants. She has not been allowed to retrieve a rabbit, I already have enough bother with her chasing them. It is very hard to keep her under control she just seems to follow her nose with her ears tight closed. What do you advise Ghillie ? She also hunts in sort of figure of 8 loops, I know this isn't right but what do I do to stop it ?
She likes some dummies more than others, sometimes she will pick them up but sometimes she will not. Should I let her run in for the ones she doesn't like or try to make her pick them ? I worry that if I let her off with refusing to pick up some dummies she might refuse to pick up woodcocks or ducks or something and then I'd be stuck . What do you think should be done ?

Ghilliegumdrop

As I am a beginner myself I'm not too sure that I am qualified to advise you, I have enough problems with not being able to get my dog back when she goes deaf and she is a pain because she is so eager to get back out hunting that she will throw any birds at my feet and begger off for the next one Exclamation

Perhaps someone else would be better able to give you some tips. Do you have ground to work her on and have you been to training classes Question

Annie as admin

If she isn't keen on one particular duimmy let her run in to it, then if she blanks it enforce the commend to retrieve. Make it fun, but dummies are only of use for training and Working test purposes. If you want a shooting dog rahter than a working test or trialling one, and want to enjoy your days with her you need to tell your relatives to keep her on a flexi and only you let her off lead. Until she is safe from chasing anyway. She is a workig breed, so you need to tell tehm that if you want her to work - depends who owns her I guess as well - is she in your name or joint with someone else?
Like to hear her breeding.
Annie

Ghilliegumdrop

She sounds just like Ghillie...has she got any Brittyhill breeding in her Question

What would you do if Allez did figure eights Annie....never heard of that one before. Still they keep on finding things to frustrate us Rolling Eyes

Do you mean she is quartering...if so this is what they are supposed to do and she sounds as if she could be very good, how old is she Question

Patricia

Plum??? nice name Very Happy

Where did you get your bitch from? where are you from??? Britain???

Ghilliegumdrop

You reckon they could be Victoria's, Patricia Very Happy

Sorry Plum I just couldn't resist it Wink

Annie as admin

Don't think I've seen Al doing figure's of eight - that's a movment in Scottish Country Dancing Laughing

The Plum

The figure of 8 happens while quartering almost or entirely straight into the wind. The pattern she makes is like a figure of 8 lying on its side. This isn't always her pattern. Sometimes she turns back with the wind instead of going into it . What ways are there of getting her to do it right ?
If I let her go far out then there's nothing I can do to stop her turning back with the wind. But if I only let her go a very short distance so I have a chance of making her turn properly then I'd be as well off with a spaniel than a pointing dog.

Do the rest of you have these problems ? I've had a very quick look through previous posts but didn;t really come up with anything. Have I missed hunt training info somewhere else ?

Retrieving sometimes is a problem and sometimes its not ! She can run in with the best of them and has brought back several strong runners from some wild cover. Then when I try to teach her to go left or right etc. using dummies she blanks me out ! Apart from game she is at her best when retrieving babies toys ! Teddy bears etc. are right up her street ! I suspect the toys have smears of baby food on them , she certainly likes them ! I feel a bit of an idiot though when training lefts and rights producing fluffy "Winnie the Poohs" and " Neddy the Donkeys" from my bag to throw for her ! I think she likes to make me look silly , she sits there with an evil grin on her face while passers by goggle at me!

Life as a Brittany trainer just is not easy ! Rolling Eyes

Annie as admin

guy

Annie as admin

Lin Dyke

Even in the garden the two styles are noticeable. The two Brits tippy toe around, scenting and hunting purposefully (we have all sorts of wildlife in our small patch) but the Springer is more akin to a bulldozer Rolling Eyes

Annie as admin

HAve you still got the bulldozer? It might like o try the TAN (unofficially, of course) Laughing

The Plum

Hi Guy, I am aware of my lack of speed over the ground - it is something that happens as you get older ! I have been looking for another way or ways of counteracting the down wind turning problem and hoped for a "quick fix solution." My way of overcoming the downwind turn without running is to stop Whizz after a downwind turn on the whistle then send her back the way she just came using a whistle command that means "go and hunt!" She wants to hunt and she wants to hunt fresh ground so having returned the way she just came she then takes a forward bite into the wind to get that fresh hunting ground . Hope that makes sense ??? It does work but is dependant upon having a good stop whistle command and a "Go hunt!" command well established at a distance.
Being lazy I posted here looking for an even easier way ! Rolling Eyes

That is quite a crew of Brittanies you've got there Guy ! You may only have had the breed a few years but you're packing a lot of experience in to yourself all in one big go ! I always like hearing about dogs working and would be interested to hear more of your progress - how about some kind of training log or diary from you ? That would give me a chance to look at someone elses problems and take my mind off my own and maybe even have a damned good argument with you about solutions to them ! Shocked

The Plum.

guy

The Plum

Guy, the "Go hunt!" whistle is more easily taught than the recall whistle and the stop whistle - you are telling your dog to do what it wants to do anyway ! The direction of the hunt is determined by the arm signal you give and that can be the same as in a retrieve situation - but the dog knows the difference ! In any real life situation there will be a shot fired preceding a retrieve . A dog understands that perfectly well and will behave accordingly.

Remember the "Go hunt !" whistle command is never , never, never used for retrieve purposes so your dog hears the stop whistle and stops/sits. Then what happens next depends upon the circumstances. With no shot fired and the -go hunt - whistle blown your dog hunts on according to your arm signal. With a shot fired and upon being commanded to "Get on !" or "Get out !" depending on where the bird fell, your dog will respond to the vocal command plus the appropriate arm signal and make the retrieve.
There is no confusion in a dogs mind about this - it's only people that seem to get a bit mixed up ! Laughing

In a hunting /quartering situation it is never a good thing to shout, shouting disturbs game . The "Go hunt !" whistle can be used without even stopping your dog. If you think your dog is making an unproductive point or if you think that your dog is lingering on an old scent ,then instead of standing a hundred yards away and yelling blue murder at it to get it to move on ,you just blow the "Go hunt !" whistle , the dog moves on - problem solved ! Laughing

I liked the sound of your apres training session in the pub Guy. Maybe you should start a diary called "Pints wot I have drunk !"
I'd still like to see a training diary from you though !
If others can do it , you can too !

The Plum.

johnhod

One possible solution to your lack of speed over the ground (other than buying a quad bike) may be to walk forward at an angle towards the dog. It means that you are zig zagging up the field with the dog but as the idea sets into its mind you can shorten the distance you walk.

The Plum

I liked the quad bike solution ! Laughing

I'm not sure that we are understanding each other properly Johnhod . Whizz does not need me to quarter the ground in a minor zig zag to match her own , she already hunts out well.
If I were to zig zag a little to match her it would cut down on the distance I managed in a forward direction and could make the downwind turn problem even worse if you see what I mean ? If that isn't what you meant -sorry Embarassed

The Plum

Ghilliegumdrop

Perhaps you should zag instead of zigging Wink

johnhod

I didn't explain it very well. I assume you're working your dog into the wind. If this is true, what I'm suggesting is that when the dog turns at the end of its run,say to your left, and heads toward you you then walk diagonally forward to your left and cast the dog off to the right as it comes close to you. Repeating the exercise on the right.

In effect you are stopping the dog from running back as far by meeting it earlier in its return. It may shorten the dog's ranging at first but it should instill what you want.

I'm convinced that this is one of those things that's more difficult to explain than it is to do.

Ghilliegumdrop

Isn't everything Rolling Eyes

The Plum

Now I understand Rolling Eyes

Doesn't doing that badly disrupt the hunting pattern ? For how long after a dog began to do things correctly would you continue to walk out to and handle the dog ?

The Plum

Ghilliegumdrop

As long as my legs will stand it.....sorry about the pun....my brain is going ga-ga Laughing

guy

Plum,
I have a 'get on' whistle used after a 'stop' and used in conjunction with a hand signal - so for example hand signal right and 'pip' dog goes right - if only it would always :-)

I also have a 'look there' whistle (sounds a bit like 'look in there' said through the whistle). The idea is when the dog is sent 'back' (my only command now for a retrieve) when in the vicinity I can whistle 'look there' and the dog should drop its nose and start searching. Currently this sometime needs reinforcing with a 'THERE' voice command if other game is around and there maybe an opportunity to drop into the default brittany mode 'hunt for yourself'. The only time i use the word 'hunt' is to send the dog to do just that. (there is another command I now rarely use PLAY which they all learned very quickly and seem to interpret as 'bugger off at high speed (ideally in independent directions) and do your own thing and ignore any voice or whistle command from now on'

I do have a bit of a problem when practicing with dummies in game rich areas where the dog will be returning with a dummy only to wind something more interesting and go on point with a mouth full. Now I suspect this wouldn't be a problem if it had a bird in its mouth as there would be a scent overload.

As you say the 'get on' whistle is very useful when the 'little darling' has gone on point the other side of the field and by the body language you know it is old rabbit - pip him on, blast the stop and then redirect.

I was quite pleased the other day to send him away from me across short grass, away across water out the other side, sat, redirected and then handled onto a blind - mind you he didn't swim back but ran around the edge and I didn't manage to say put but had to go to the waters edge once he was in the middle (he kept turning back to me) But on the whole i was pleased to get him across three different types of terrain. One of those moments one cherishes when out with your dog.

I have seen a labrador handler who has a left and a right whistle so he can
maneuvered the dog by signal alone.

The Plum

Guy, I use the "Go hunt !" whistle on a still moving dog at times -for example if it is lingering on old scent or is sniffing among rabbit holes.

I usually give the vocal command "There !" to have a dog seek a retrieve from a tight defined area. Should the dog leave the area and I am certain that the retrieve is there (dummies rarely run far ) then I use a series of sharply descending stop whistles to have the dog cease its progress to fresh ground and have it return to try again in the fall area.
Embarassed

Or at least I would if the little devil would listen ! Embarassed

Dogs with birds in their mouths can still scent and point on unshot game, this has happened to me a few times.

I am a bit wary of becoming whistle happy. Like you I saw a lab handler use left and right whistle commands to control his dog on a blind. He also had to use the stop whistle and when the dog went too far out , the recall whistle. Put all that together and he sounded a bit like the dawn chorus !
Maybe it's just me but I didn't like it much .

The Plum.

Ghilliegumdrop

How do you blow a 'go hunt' Question

Ghill doesn't need it as she will hunt on command anyway.....just thinking of Merlin Exclamation

Annie as admin

Well Mr Plum or Mrs Plum, you are certainly getting discussion going on here. I think you may know more than you think. Have you ever taken your dog to training classes?

Patricia

Plum....Mr, Mrs?? where do you train? which is your part of the country and how old is your bitch? You may not give maybe quite enough info to go on for help? It sounds confusing to me... Embarassed

johnhod · With a young dog I'd keep it up until I was sure it was em

The Plum

Thanks Johnhod , I posted to try to get an easier way of doing things where down wind turning is concerned but it seems I'll just have to do the walking and do the work !

Yes Annie I have been to training classes but not to Brittany training classes - I was in with the big boys ! Laughing

Whizz is now 2 years old, she now lives with my kids and I take her out for training while they take her walks - and detraining ! I train her literally anywhere ! If you train a dog in one place only it is likely to perform in one place only. I attend shoots as far as 100 miles away to get the work I want for the dog.

One of the main things that annoys me about Brittanies is their retrieving or in some cases their lack of it ! Training a Brittany to hunt is a bit like training a fish to swim but retrieving ! Rolling Eyes

My bitch will try every time to retrieve game but will not always be keen on dummies. The way things are I'd have more chance of winning a trial with her than of winning a test ! I haven't had her in for tests or trials and I'm not likely to if my family continue to allow her to chase - if a hare passed by I wouldn't see her again this side of Sheffield !

The Plum.

Ghilliegumdrop

The Plum

Ghillie, You asked about the "hunt" whistle ? It is the most easily taught whistle command of them all because your dog WANTS to hear it above all else. This command teaches itself and I feel like a charlatan saying I "teach" my dog it !

It is taught by arriving where you are going to hunt with your dog at heel or leashed then sitting the dog, lead comes off but keep your dog sitting. If there is a wind blowing e.g. from your right onto your right cheek then you cast the dog off to the left for you mst always ,as you know, cast the dog off WITH the wind. Your dog will want to go and the cast off arm signal is made AT THE SAME TIME as the "Go hunt !" whistle sound that you have decided upon.

It is very likely that your dog will be confused ,uncertain during the first training lessons using this command but persevere and your dog will soon understand that when it sees that signal and hears that whistle it can go and hunt , which of course is what it wants to do anyway ! Laughing

Your dog is training itself, always an easier way of doing things than you training the dog ? Smile

Once this cast off to hunt routine is well established you can move on to the next stage. This is simple too for again your dog just does what it wants to do anyway. Start as usual with your dog sitting but when you cast off to hunt give a bit less of an arm signal to the dog. If the dog is at all uncertain at once repeat but with a stronger arm signal. Usually a dog will quickly understand this and move off to hunt.
During yor training sessions continue to reduce the visible arm signal and any other body language commands you are giving such as stepping forward. Eventually your dog will " Go Hunt !" for the whistle sound alone.

Make sure that is well established then move on to the next stage. Instead of beginning with your dog by your side ,sit it then leave it sitting . Move a few yards away 5 or 6 is fine to start with then give your dog the "hunt" command. It is usually better to again accompany this with an arm signal at least for the first few times. Once this is understood by the dog with a few yards separating you then ,once more, miss out the arm signal and leave the dog to respond to the whistle only if it wants to hunt . Do Brittanies want to hunt ? Do camels fart in the desert ? Laughing

Continue during each training session to increase the distance between you and your dog before casting it off. Now add a little extra bit, as your dog is hunting but not too far out and is in good game scented country to make it want to "go," whistle stop the dog insisting upon a sit. After a few seconds whistle the hunt command but again add back in the arm signal. This cues the dog in to what you which just happens to be what it wants too ! Establish this with more training again dropping the arm signal once yo get a good response. Now begi to increase the whistle stop distances and work on from there with the "Go Hunt !" whistle at longer and longer distances. This is a self rewarding behaviour following a command to a dog like the average Brittany that wants above all else to continue hunting . It is not neccessary to give the dog praise or to give it treats. The dog rewards itself !!!

You should eventually find that if your dog has checked - perhaps on an old scent or maybe at a few rabbit holes, it is possible to get it moving again very easily.

The Plum.

Ghilliegumdrop

Thank you me dear...that's very clearly said and I will try with the Ghilldog, although, as I have said, she knows what to do anyway [better than me] Twisted Evil

Are you training today Question

The Plum

Yes a little later after the carpet men have been - a certain darling doggy went and destroyed about 3 feet of my carpet ! Need a new one Crying or Very sad

I have just noticed that my last post was a bit haphazard with letters missing etc. Sorry about that I had to finish very quickly because a big van arrived outside - I thought the carpet men had come early but it was a delivery for next door. I hate mornings like this Exclamation

The Plum

johnhod

johnhod

So come on the rest of you. Do your dogs all hunt perfect patterns, so you don't need to improve them, or do you have suggestions for The Plum to try? If it worked for you it may work for him (and me).

Patricia

Mr Plum...interesting explanation for Janet...May I ask how you stop a dog back casting? We had lot of explanations with Trevor Rigby...but as in books, sometimes it is best explained in the field. Also step by step for some of the novices here!!! Very Happy

The Plum

Hi Patricia, I treat back casting as I do down wind turning. It is the same thing isn't it ? I play upon the dogs wish to want to hunt fresh ground and I send it back into the ground it has back casted into again and again until it takes a proper forward bite into the wind in order to get that fresh ground - once more I let the dog train itself, with Brittanies that is often easier than having a head - butting session ! Laughing

I am interested to know how you solve the problem ?? Very Happy

How did you come to the conclusion that I am Mr. Plum ? Why not Mrs. Plum ?

The Plum.

Ghilliegumdrop

Are you Mr. Plum then....or can we call you Victoria Question

Not our NZ Victoria....I know that Wink

The Plum

I am just The Plum - - - I leave it to others to decide whether I have one ,two or none at all ! Laughing

The Plum

Patricia

Plum, Plum, I'll go for 2 Laughing

The Plum

You naughty girl Exclamation

The Plum.

Ghilliegumdrop

Two what

haven't we all Wink

Patricia

Not those we haven't Laughing

I read and read Plum's posts. From the way it is written" like puppy biters etc..." not a novice...the vocabulary too...

back to the drawing board: I remember Eunice drawing little pics about dog and wind. But nothing like getting out there and being corrected and shown with the real thing: the dog.
Trevor Rigby ( on the spring pointing test) talked about back casting...but... was not very clear to me... Crying or Very sad

Still, it did not apply to my dog Very Happy

( which I did not handle,but my husband!!)
He was told he over handled Athos, but...you should have seen him the day before Rolling Eyes

Fast and furious... Exclamation

The Plum

I have a query. The bit at the side of the posts says what you are. How come I'm a Bretonier ? I've only done a few posts ?

The Plum.

Patricia

Mr Plum...Anne has put us all as Bretonniers. If you are, then you belong to the select family of the Bretons owners and fanatics. Laughing

That makes us superior to other races of dogs Exclamation

The Plum

I see - I think Confused

On a U.S. forum I am called a master hunter or something like that - I've never been too keen to be labelled - I've met too many people called experts who are anything but !!! Rolling Eyes

The Plum --- ordinary dog trainer extrordinaire Razz

Ghilliegumdrop

Hey, what's with the ordinary dog trainer bit Question

Patricia

Plum...I will say what we say in French" Je donne ma langue au chat!" Laughing

So, one more clue?

Annie as admin

One more clue to what - how many Plums he or she has Wink

Ghilliegumdrop

And what variety are they Wink

Annie as admin

Perhaps he or she is a French Damson Wink

Apologies, Plum, we digress and we are being a bit cheeky - just a bit of fun. We should get back to the topic of Training Tips, as this is a very interesting subject especially for novices like me, and you seem to have your finger on the pulse.
Annie

Ghilliegumdrop

Just wondered if they were self fertile and is it on dwarf stock like what my plum tree is Exclamation

PS Why have you written that twice Question

Annie as admin

What? - you were going to phone me - forgot? Al age disna come it's lane

guy

At least it is plum not prune - but then prunes can start a movement.

i did wonder - we had a joker here recently duffbuff now we have plum how long before plum duff?

Anyway i think as The Plum joined on such an auspicious date this handler cannot be all bad.:-)

Getting back to the thread -

Plum - i liked your idea of training fish to swim - so getting back to retrieving - the Americans (collars apart) have some quite regimented retrieving regimes to train their dogs - do you or anyone have any views on waggon wheel patterns or pile retrieves?

I had a problem with an over excited dog 'overmouthing' a retrieve so aquired 10 brace of partridge - put them in a pile and kept sending the dog back to bring another. It took the excitement away such that by the 12th bird i think the shutters had come down. it solved the rearranging in the mouth problem - the dog just got on with it.

Another thought i would like peoples comment on is 'holidays' during the season we work the dogs hard and then comes the Spring and the Summer - does anyone give the dog a training holiday or just keep going?

johnhod

Annie as admin

Annie as admin

guy

Annie as admin

I'm off to try to get Rio in as it's tipping down - he escaped when I called Allez in earlier. Didn't want him to go out just yet after his accident but he took off like the proverbial bat out of hell and slipped through the posts onto teh railway line - pity I didn't have him as a kitten I could have taught him the stop whistle.
Wink

Good night all
Annie

Annie as admin

guy

my birthday not my date of birth. My computer says july.

The Plum

Happy Birthday Guy Very Happy

Johnhod - as a Liverpudlian type do you have any right to complain of or to ask for a translation of other peoples languages ! Laughing

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ! Laughing

I.M.O. retrieving is a subject dear to my heart but not dear to many Brittanies. With the best will in the world and even with rose coloured specs on Brits are not the easiest of gundog breeds to persuade to retrieve. As a breed they tend to do what comes naturally easily and that includes retrieving game but they tend not to like being trained to do it !

Up to present I have tried two ways of training a Brit to retrieve. I have tried working on the hunting from a very early age (10 weeks) and I have tried working on the retrieving from an early age (7 weeks) .... The pup given very early encouragement to retrieve was relatively easy to train for more advanced retrieving. The hunt encouraged pup was very difficult to train to retrieve any dummy or even ccld game.

The hunt encouraged pup hunted like a little fiend but she nearly had me in tears over her retrieving - or rather the lack of it ! She would have tried the patience of a saint ! She would retrieve fresh game but not dummies and I won two trials with her before I had persuaded her to pick a dummy. In short she was a real brit, a little monster -but - oh boy ! She could work ! I was very fortunate in those trials she won . The judges liked her and wanted her to win (I think !) when they discovered she only liked freshly killed game they made certain that the birds used for the water tests were damned near red hot !

All that was fine and good but more is needed if a fully accomplished gundog is required. Game cannot be organised to fall in such a way that it makes a good blind retrieve. To have a reliable dog at blind retrieves the dog must be prepared to retrieve either dummies or cold game. Only in this way can the neccessary practice take place.
Since even cold game is not always available the dog must be trained to retrieve dummies - back to square one - many Brittanies don't like them !

Unless the handler is very experienced or prepared to C.T. the pup or F.F. the pup I believe that retrieving should be a major part of a pups life from a very early age. If it wants to play the only kind of game to engage in should be retrieve games. Only after two or three puppy type retrieves should the handler engage in other games.

Neither F.F. or C.T. is acceptable to me for gundog training so I am left to work with the instincts a good breeder should have bred in to a litter with extra to spare ! That is of course a personal view but I have used both F.F. and C.T. - both are capable of masking a lack of retrieve instinct and a dog lacking in that instinct should not be bred from no matter the dogs other attributes at work or in the show ring.

If good retrieving is required , breed for it first, train for it second.

The Plum.

The Plum

Patricia, you mentioned the name Eunice and hunt pattern drawings - was that Eunice Lambert ?

The Plum.

guy

The Plum

It is certaily true that a dog will quickly understand the significance of the sound a gun makes when a safety catch is put "off."
I had a bitch that was used to decoying pigeon and goose. She sat or lay in the hide and if things were slow she would fall asleep. She come instantly awake if I saw a bird coming in my direction and put off the safety in preparation for the shot.

Once while I was in an evil mood I noticed her sleeping in front of the fire one evening. I sneaked away and got the gun. She jumped bolt upright when I put the safety off and stared all around her trying to see the bird and get her bearings. She realised my trick ,gave me a filthy look and lay down again with a grumble.
I never repeated this, in fact I felt a bit of a rat ! I love a bit of fun but I am of the opinion that tricks should not hurt man or animal physically or mentally. Just a personal thing.

The Plum.

Ghilliegumdrop

That bit about only retrieving game when it's red hot applys to the Ghilldog, she is really not interested if I try to get her to retrieve cold game ie anything more than a couple of hours old. Perhaps they share the same ancestors Question

Hope the training goes well today.........

johnhod

I was in the unfortunate position of not getting my Brittany until he was 9 months old and getting him retrieving dummy's was a struggle. I resisted the temptation to use the FF and knew (and still know) little of CT methods so it was a long hard slog on dummys, with mediocre results. Once on game, however, he changed completely and retrieved as if it was the most natural thing in the world. Once the season was over I had to wean him off game and back onto dummys, for training, which took less effort than I expected (except at training classes, on a particular ground, where he sees retrieving as something for the others to do while he enjoys a sniff around)

Victoria

Ghilliegumdrop

Yes, thats just what she hates Victoria. We don't have frozen shooting expeditions but she won't pick up game that I keep from one day to the next.......or defrost.

Training tips.

training tips

With a young dog I'd keep it up until I was sure it was em