Your opinion

Sokoly · Your opinion

What is your opinion? I am seriously thinking of finding a nice trained brittany. The offer I got is 3,5 year old trained male around 700 EU, a 3 year old male with no pedigree 100 EU, also introduced to hunt (but with guns), and a 1 year old female with all the papers 150 EU. The owner of the bitch told me that she needs some more work to become a steady marker-pointer. What is your opinion, what should I go for. The money does make the difference but the point is I would really like a dog that will become a part of my life and be of help when doing falconry. Finding the partridges. Please give me your opinion on this. I am not in a position to take care of small puppy - Sad

Annie as admin

I would go for the young female. Older trained and partly trained dogs quite often go through disobedience with new owners so you would be in the same position as if you had to retrain. The female will be much more likely to bond with you too.
Annie
ps we do not know whether you are male or female as we don't know names in your country - Laughing

Which please?

Sokoly · Ha

I am a 30 year old male. My name is Ognen my nick name is Sokoly because Sokol means FALCON in Macedonian as in many other Slovic languages. :-)
If I go for the female will I have to breed from here and what is the best time to do that? What are the traits that I should look for when the owner takes her out in the field to show her to me? How do i recognize some good or bad traits? What to look for? How do I judge the character?
Their will be more questions coming up...... :-)

Mugi

Hi

I can't help with what to look for as I have never worked a dog but like Annie I would go for the bitch. In my opinion the fact that she needs some work to finish her means you have an ideal opportunity to build a good relationship with the dog which can mean more with the HPR breeds than what actual training has taken place.

As for breeding, no you don't need to breed from her. I don't know what the facilities are in your country but if you can manage to keep her separate from dogs during her seasons then there is no reason to neuter either although there are certainly some health benefits to consider.

If you chose to breed it should be done because you want to and if you know you can find homes for the pups.

Sokoly · Yup

I plan to keep her in the house. So no adittional separation from the dogs would be needed I quess. Bitches are smaller so it would be even better for me and for her to leave in the house. The only thing that is worrying me is how am I going to leavve her at home alone during the working ours??? What should I do to make this event less stressful for the dog and less costly for me (my inventory, sofa, rags, furniture, etc.) :-)))

Annie as admin

Hi Sokoly
You should invewst in an indoor kennel - a large cage where she can move around in and you can leave water and food if necessary. It would be best if you had someone coming in to let her out to wee if you are away more than a few hours. But perhaps you can get home at lunchtime?

I would also suggest you arrange to have a few days off work to bond with her as she may suffer separation anxiety otherwise and bark - your neighbours would not like that! You can get her used to the cage during those days by putting her in there to eat and also when you are eating, and she can sleep in it at night. If she is left alone to roam the house she may well chew things up as she will get bored. She is little moer than a puppy really at that age.
I agree with Sue - no need to breed unless you want to and have buyers for puppies. If she turns out to be a good worker people will want them.
Good luck.
Annie

Sokoly

Can someone give me some advices on how do I make her a good working/hunting dog? Is only taking her to the field good enough? What do I do when she finds the birds? How do I make her not flush them till I give her the signal?
I know I ask too many questions but please understand me I wantto give my dog the best treatment and have some good input from her during my falconry.

Annie as admin

Don't worry. She will hunt naturally. Most Brittanys are hunting machines. What you need to do is not let her off lead until she will stop on command every time (one long whistle blast and a flat hand held high like a policeman) and return to you every time (a few peeps on the whistle and perhaps a treat when she comes back to you and sits nicely). When she is allowed off lead to hunt she will forget most things but if you have trained these two commands onlead you will have a better chance of controlling her. You can use a long line so she cannot run away until she is steady.
Annie

Mugi

Hi Sokoly

As Annie says, they do it naturally. The first time I took Mugi out was just as the pheasnat season was starting and the area we were in was teeming with birds. Mugi hunted steadily, went on point then flushed a hen pheasant. He returned to me all happy with himself.

I got him aged 10 yrs from a pet home so it is definitely a natural ability!!
I concentrated on recall as my first training priority and since then we have worked on the emergency stop. In my opinion all other behaviours can follow but with these you have a good chance of keeping your dog safe and happy.

Sokoly

Thanks for your advices, but what does it mean to train in to stop. Don't they stop naturally when they find the sent of the birds? How do I teach the dog to stand on a point a longer period without flashing the birds. I will need this kind of work because I will have to release the falcon and wait at list 10-15 minutes to get a good hight and position of the falcon. Will she wait that long and wait for my command when to flush the birds? How do I make her stop from chasing the falcon and partridge, this could be dangerous because as soon as the falcon catches the partridge they will lend. If the dog approaches on the falcon with kill it can get grabbed on the nose...

Annie as admin

Yes, this is exactly why you need to train the dog to stop - what I mean by that is to sit or lie down as soon as you blow the whistle. She will eventually do that when she flushes the game if you train first with the whistle, and use a long line(30 feet or more)
Some dogs hold the point longer than others but she will gradually learn what is required of her. She will need to be introduced to your falcon gradually so it respects her and doesn't try to attack her. Steve Wright is the best person to help you with that and perhaps he knows falconers in your own country who can help - his website is www.stevewrightfalconry.co.uk and you can email him from there
Annie

Sokoly

Thanks Annie, I already contacted him.
You've been of a lot help, to me as I get the dog I will probably think of more questions as they arrouse in everyday life with the dog.
:-)

Ghilliegumdrop

Wonder why when I click on Steve's email through this link, it takes me to the Stretton Hotel!!

johnhod

One important thing for you to remember Sokoly, the training is going to take time. Brittanys are intelligent but it still takes time to be sure they have learned the lessons properly

Ghilliegumdrop

Takes even more time to get them to do it after they have learnt it properly and they decide they don't want to do it!! Specially if they are up the other end of the field!!

Annie as admin

Yup - out of range is out of mind, absence makes the hunt feel stronger Wink

Victoria

Sokoly, in my experience, when the Breton is upon game they show what we call over here 'caution' when going forward or 'roading in' on the game to flush it. I like what the French hunters do; when the dog is going up (coulee in French) they may just put their hand on the dog very gently; you have a connection and perhaps an element of unconscious restraint. With my boy, he shows the caution and will hold his point as the pheasant flies up; hopefully I have had a chance to shoot it (he can be a bit eager sometimes but I excuse him for that because I am feeling exactly the same!!!!!!)...so by this time he is in seek and retrieve mode. As everyone says when you hunt with them their instinct takes over and they are beautiful to watch...of course this is not with a bird on ones arm...as a falconer you have two incredible hunters to think about!!! I have just one and my gun to consider!! You would have more to concern yourself with and as I asked in my initial enquiry how do you get your Breton off the scent so to speak because as soon as the bird rises, I presume the falcon has lifted and is after the bird. I wish you all the best...in my opinion you have joined us who have the best hunting dog in the world...these little dogs take your breath away!! Very Happy

Ghilliegumdrop

Not the only thing they take away when they get the chance!!
What I would like to know is how the french get close enough to put their hand on the dog's back? The Ghilldog usually goes on point about 100 feet away and by the time I've huffed and puffed my way up there she, and the bird, are long gone! Boy do I get some dirty brittany looks, ever noticed how they can look at you sideways and give an eyeroll? Makes one feel really small.
Jan

Victoria

I dont think there is such a expressive head as the Breton; they can do so much with their facial features from goopey, dopey, totally gorgus to smart alerky; probably why we love them so much... Very Happy

Victoria

Sokoly, what breed of falcon do you have; how many do you have; do they have names; how old is your falcon/s; are they male or female?

Sokoly

I went to see the bitch this weekend. She is a beauty. The owner said that he has not been taking her on hunt this last 5 mounths because she had puppies. She was in her box most of the time. She is a little bit over weight also. He took her out of the box and take her to the fields so we can see if she is a good working dog. Unfortunatelly we could not see much point's because the partridges are in pairs now and they are scatered all over the fields. The young weat fields are sprayed with pesticides and he (the owner) was scared to let the dog scanne all the fields because as he said last year a bitch ate some of the wheat and got poisoned and had to give birth to premature puppies that all died out. I am not that much informed so decided to believe him. After awhile although the bitch has not worked in a mounths time she flushed a partridge. The mark was very short before the bird bursed in front of her.This may be due to the breeding season the partridges are in. Perhaps they are more flushy during this period of year. Is this a mistake or a normal thing at this time of year considering that this dog has not hunted in a long time. Is this sometihing I can fix? Is her nose o.k.? She did not run for the partridge but came back to us. After a few metters another partridge bursed out of the wheat. Probably more scared from us than the dog. Buba-the dog, was searching for the partridge in a perimeter of around 30-40 meters. As we stoped she would stop searching.When we continued our walk she would continue hers. The owner was conviencing me that this dog would need some more excercise and more field work and by the time the falconry season would come she would be great. I am thinking of taking her in few days. If you can see anything interesting and worth notifying me about in this text, please give me your thoughts.
Sokoly

Sokoly

Victoria, I have peregrine falcons. I have eight of them in my small breeding facility. As the time went by working with falcons I learned that a person like me, very tightly bonding to his pets or falcons (falcons are not pets)!! should not give names to them. Why? Simply because when you spend so much time tamming them and manning them if some they they choose not to come back from a flight I would feel more misarable if the falcon had name. The name is the atribute that we will connect the particular falcon to. So in order not to be broken hearted again, I decided not to give my falcons any names. It kind a keep some space in between us. If you know what I mean. :-)

Victoria

Sokoly I have so admired the peregrine falcon only from photographs of course as we do not have them in this country. I understand perfectly what you say about naming them! The thought of having eight of those glorious birds; wow!!! At what age do you start training them?
Nor do I know anything of partridge except of what I saw at the Club de l'Epageul Breton's TAN and show last August; I had never seen them before so it was a wonderful experience to see them so close and to hear them...why is the man selling Buba? I look forward to seeing fotos of her!!

Sokoly

Victoria The dog breeder is selling Buba because thats his job he has a small breeding center for English pointers and Britannies. He also sells a very good male Britannie, but he is 3,5 years old, and bigger than the female. Also Bubba is the quitest of all I saw.
I start training the falcons write after their moult, or if it's a young bird somewhere around end of August-September. You have New zealand Falcons there. They are very interesting because they have a longer and broader tails which is a usual trade of Hawks.They are more manuverable.

Mugi

Hi, I am not experienced enough in the breed to be able to discuss Buba's hunting ability and how to take her forward but can I just ask one thing please??

In your first post you mentioned she was a year old but apparently she has already had a litter of pups??? This seems very young to have been a mother and I would want to be sure that she is fully sound, having a litter very young and before the dog is finished growing herself can put a lot of strain on her.

Sokoly

Mugi as I have been told Buba is 1,5 years old. I have also heard that dogs that have a litter very young they stay smaller. But can this have any illeffects on her health?

Victoria

I think if you feed the young bitch really well I cannot see that it is detrimental in the long run; I had a one year old (not a Breton) get in whelp and I refused to have the puppies aborted as this can cause sterility and other conditions in the female dog which is worse (in my opinion)! My bitch Jean (an Australian Cattle Dog) had only three puppies and did them very well. I fed her alot of fresh meat and she was fine. I guess it all depends on the individual dog. It was an unintended pregnancy but my other bitches were 2 and a half before they were bred.

Annie as admin

Hi Sokoly
From what you write about being in the field with the trainer and Bubba I have deduced the following:
1. She is, as Sue says, far too young to have had pups
2. She may be older than 1 and half - will you see her registration papers before buying then you can check?
3. If she is fat she hasn't been out much so won't have much experience.
4. To point(mark) a bird with little experience and then flush is very good (the birds will be jumpy if they are pairing)
5. To stay within 30/40 metres is also good in a young dog
6. To come back to you is also very good at that age.

My Advice:
1. You have a good dog there
2. You should rescue her now as I am sure this man is in it for money only and will breed her again
3. Make sure she has not been frightened by him - it sounds as if she is OK though
Good luck!
Annie

Sokoly

I kind a noticed that she is sort of affraid of him, perhaps this man had beaten her?????? Can this leave a longterm effects on the dog? Also he said that she is affraid of other dogs and she doesnt like to work when there are other dogs in the field?

Mugi

Sokoly

Mugi, I will try to take her during this week. And will try to work with some positive reinforcement with her.

Victoria

Sokoly, every best wish with Buba; how exciting! Regarding our Falcon, some say that its closest relative are the falcons of South America; the word I had been trying to remember was accipiter; which our falcon is not but its environment has meant that its shorter wings and longer tail enables it to hunt amongst trees. They are considered an endangered specie here and there is a $NZ5000.00 fine should you be found to have killed one. They are ferocious hunters; I have watched them hunting skylarks (Alauda arvensis liberated in New Zealand from England in 1864).

Sokoly

Yes Victoria, they are beautifull falcons. Dr. Nick Fox is breeding them for later reintroduction in nature.
I am takin Buba in Saturday, will have to give her a nice bath, anti endoparazites, treatment and of course some hair trimming.

Victoria

Can we have a foto of Buba?!!

Sokoly · Foto Buba

Sorry no foto's yet. I will be taking her tommorow. Probably I will be able to attach some fotos as soon as Monday. She is a chuby little sweetheart. :-)

Victoria

Hi Sokoly, how are things going with Buba?

Sokoly · Hello

Buba is fine. She is being treated like a princess. Very calm and good behaving in the house. Very rearly barks and never does the pody at home. I couldn't wait longer so i took her to the fields. She was preaty clumsy on the partridges. She can sent them and by the time she points they are bursting from the grass. I quess thats because she was not into "hunting mode". And after all the partridges are breeding now so they might be more spooky? I start taking her to the fields every other day and once she made a very good point that lasted maybe a hole minute. :-)))
I quess that by taking her out as often I could she will be ready by October???
Chears to all,

Victoria

Yes by the sound of it she will be well and truly ready by October!! We have only three weeks to go before the opening day of our shooting season; have to buy my licence! Buba sounds lovely!

Your opinion

Ha

Yup

Foto Buba

Hello