as a PS to an earlier post - to avoid any confusion from a swift reading, I did say 'the dual purpose breed clubs' - plural and general, not ours in particular. _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
I think that all gundog breeds would do well to implement this, not only the dual purpose breeds. I have been impressed with the aims of the Working Clumber Spaniel Society's aims:
Quote:
To promote and encourage training and use of the breed
To restore the breed's physical soundness and functional qualities
To encourage owners to breed selectively from sound, work-proven specimens
To hold educational and competitive working events
To resist moves to alter the breed's type which may damage its utility
This approach is obviously bearing fruit, in the past 10 shooting seasons, 11 different dogs have won field trials. This compares with only one in the previous 84 seasons. Added to this the average hip score of work bred Clumbers is 12, but for show bred the average is 55!
Hi Keith ,are the work bred Clumbers much smaller and lighter in weight/type than the showbred and can you tell me if Clumbers are managing to win trials against springers and cockers ?
My personal feeling is that a really good dog can win against any competition. I don't think making up a Clumber for example or a Brittany to Field Trial Champion status should happen unless the dog has beaten all comers on the day.
I am aware that Clumbers are a greatly improved breed but do they do their trial winning only among the spaniel breeds other than cockers and springers ? This is a breed I like having seen my first working ones about 30 years ago. I think Princess Annes dog trainer or gamekeeper trained them ?
Bill T. _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
Hi Bill, as far as I'm aware a Clumber hasn't been made up to FT Ch, most of their wins have been in minor breed spaniel trials. I think shear numbers are against them, in 2003 only 134 Clumbers were registered compared to 12000 ESS and 13000 cockers. The weight problem is something the working Clumber people are upset about, the Kennel Club have raised the recommended weight in the breed standard to 80lbs at the behest of the show people, working dogs are about 20 to 30 lbs lighter!
I saw a Clumber working on a shoot last season and was impressed, although he was slower than the Springers and Cockers he covered every inch of ground really thoroughly. I did some beating last year whilst I was on the waiting list for the syndicate I'm now in, and enjoyed it so much I'll probably do more next year. If I do I would seriously consider a Clumber, a slower dog would make a nice change from my Brittanys and Trial bred labradors.
The Working Clumber Spaniel Society has a nice website with pictures and videos showing working Clumbers in action.
I will try to answer John...and other things indirectly.
Bill is wanting a dog from proven parents..no problems here. I like to go back further really and that is where the breeding side comes in as well as ascendants's results. When I look on the " livre d'elevage" I look at te trial results, how consistant etc...This already gives me a picture of what I am looking for when importing. Often I will have some idea of what the partents look like, but that is not enough. And not only that, but health, looks etc...
I will now give you an exemple of how difficult this all is: Adding to the gene pool is no bad thing either.
I had decided to buy in a good male from proven working stock- and tailless- and the best I could find, both parents with field awards, recommended breeder, etc etc...
I went to see my puppy in France, he is retrieving from land and water, pointing etc etc... but...he won't make size.
Therefore he won't be coming over as I want to have a gundog capable of working sugar beet, carrying hares and geese if need be.
My observation is there are many small bitches being bred from ending up in weedy and fine animals making it difficult to fulfill their job.
When they say" construite en lice- brood bitch - that is for a good reason.
So, for me ( like many) the whole package and nothing else.
I don't know if this still holds true but it used to be case that it was the larger brits that did well in trials. I have met Rory Majors bitch and she's a big girl too. I prefer the larger sized Brits myself for working.
Bill T. _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
Keith, can a spaniel winning minor breed trials never make F.T. CH. ? Are there no Open trials for the so called Minor breeds ?
The K.C. is being utterly ridiculous and showing their complete ignorance of a dogs working requirements by making the Clumbers weight up to 80 pounds ! What a bunch of know nothing numpties but that's what happens when show folk rule the roost. It is obvious that they are not trying to seriously work their dogs !
Even a well built trialing male labrador would be unlikely to weigh 80 pounds. Even Buck my G.S.P. falls short of that weight !
Words fail me to describe the stupidity of folk who think a dog of that weight and build could be a worthwhile working gundog .
Bill T. _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
I will never forget the day I was told my WSS was too thin and muscled at a show. He was lean and powerful and capable of doing a days work (well if he weren't gunshy ). It was not a positive comment btw!
When Mugi was recently shown at an Open Show in AV Special Veteran 10+ where he came third I was given the other attitude by a judge who likes working dogs. Her comment as she came down the line was "I do like the muscle on your Brittany". _________________ Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.
The trouble is that some show judges don't recognise muscle if they see it! I remember one judge going over my Wei bitch and being told she was very lumpy - the woman had obviously never felt a well muscled up dog before _________________ Liz and the Brats
And I cannot be doing with judges and vets who tell Brittany owners their dogs are fat. For goodness sake, they are well ribbed, strong boned, well muscled, and have rounded bums - they aren't flippin' fat! (well the occasional one is from time to time I suppose - if he gets too many treats for being a GOOOOD boy)
_________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
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and the best I could find, both parents with field awards, recommended breeder, etc etc...
). It was not a positive comment btw!
