In Australia, you can check with the vet prior to having the dog x-rayed: some retain x-rays and others give them to the owner. There is also a choice of sending the x-rays to the AVA or an approved individual radiographer for scoring. Many breeders choose the latter to have the consistency of the same pair of eyes scoring the hips from their kennels when they make breeding decisions, because this reduces the variability in hip scores that may be due to differences in scoring between panel members. However, there is an extra cost to having the plates scored and so those "read" by the local vet as too high to breed may save themselves the cost of an official reading and so artificially reduce the breed average score. You can also have the hip score recorded on the the dog's data held by the registration body. For some breeds this recording is compulsory for litters to be registered.
Putting my logical head on ............ I see no point at all in a person not submitting poor plates. Of course I can see the breeders persective of not wanting to publish on the one hand but we accept that poor hips are not necessarily caused by one factor and a factor we haven't discussed is the fact that poor positioning of the dog for x-ray may also have a contribution.
But if we omit all poor scores over breed mean then surely we are potentially artificially lowering our breed average and making life harder for ourselves down the years as we will be possibly ruling out some good dogs from our breeding pool. I don't mean we should be ignoring the desire to always lower hip scores (along with the other reasons we should be selecting good sound stock) but for me it is simple, test and publish whatever the result .... or don't test and answer the questions that may be raised by people wanting to use your dog or buy your puppies. _________________ Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.
But if we omit all poor scores over breed mean then surely we are potentially artificially lowering our breed average and making life harder for ourselves down the years as we will be possibly ruling out some good dogs from our breeding pool. I don't mean we should be ignoring the desire to always lower hip scores (along with the other reasons we should be selecting good sound stock) but for me it is simple, test and publish whatever the result .... or don't test and answer the questions that may be raised by people wanting to use your dog or buy your puppies.
My stance is to only breed below the average. There are plenty of dogs and bitches in our present gene pool with low scores. I know there are environmental and feeding influences to HD as well as the hip scores themselves but anyone intending breeding should have bought their dog from low score parents and brought it up correctly, with good food and correct exercise. Yes it makes life harder for breeders but it makes life better for the dogs. JMVHO _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
With regard to breeding from low scores. I think it would be a great idea if we could get all the litter mates scored which would give the breed a true picture on hips. At present very few pet people hipscore their dogs they are usually only done when the vet has found an issue with lameness etc.
We have always had the odd high hipscore even in the early dogs but most of these were not bred from. However, having 2 litter brothers from a low hipscored bitch (5 total) both fed and exercised the same, one has a low score (10) and the other (36) The low scored dog is being used at stud and the other never will be.
Purely out of interest both dogs were scored at the same time at a cost of £500 and the vet contacted me during the procedure saying that the one dog would not settle and she was wary of giving the dog any more anaesthetic. Having never had a hip issue with my breeding programme I told her to submit the x-ray for scoring. The sad thing is we cannot have his hips scored again.
a factor we haven't discussed is the fact that poor positioning of the dog for x-ray may also have a contribution.
I have heard of an instance in another breed where two seperate x -rays were submitted for one dog, the second being submitted under the name of another dog. The latter of the two was assessed as having a much lower score. If this is possible, it makes me wonder why subsequent tests are not allowed. Surely it is only the owner who has anything to lose. Lots of dosh! _________________ If a job's worth doing, it's worth paying somebody else to do it properly
Having never had a hip issue with my breeding programme I told her to submit the x-ray for scoring. The sad thing is we cannot have his hips scored again.
For your own peace of mind you could have them x-rayed again by someone else who's maybe more experienced at doing hip x-rays just to see. I'd never go to my own vets for this procedure. _________________ karen
I have also heard of two instances when the dog has come back from the vet being lame Why I wonder?
You can also resubmit but it is costly. In France you get your Xrays and you can resubmit them. There are I believe 3 approved people by the CEB to do this procedure.
I can't see why we can't do the same ..as long as we pay!
Mugi, I agree that all hip x-rays should be scored. However, it is the vets who need to be convinced. They are clearly not encouraging people who have their dogs hips x-rayed to then send them for scoring. Waldo's Annie is just one case of a dog x-rayed, plates "read" by the local vet, and no suggestion to the owner of sending them for official scoring. I would imagine that this is the case with vets the world over.
I think that the idea of charging more for puppies and then reimbursing part of the purchase price when owners send the breeder the hip score at 12 months or older is a very good idea. I confess that this hadn't occurred to me, but when I am ready to breed again (won't be a for several years), I'll seriously consider doing so. After all, the purchase price is the cheapest part of owning a puppy (feeding, vet bills, registration, insurance, etc, etc).
I take all my dogs to a really really good place to get there hips x-rayed. It is near Southampton. The people who x-ray the dogs do only that and they only give the dogs a sedative and not an anisthetic.
You go there fill out your own forms and then you get called in. You hold your own dog and stay with it at all times. After they develope the film they call you back in and have a chat about the hips. If you or they are not happy with the x-ray then it is done again.
The charge is £60 for the x-ray + the BVA. If you want pups done under 1 year of age that it only costs you about a tenner I think. That can be useful if you are in any dout about you young stocks hips.
I would not go to a vet and I would not have my dogs have an anisthetic.
Gill and the Mabeleen who went to Southampton to get her hips X-Rayed.
That is another side of the hip scoring: whether to anesthesise or not...The French and my own vet certainly advocate putting the dog right under. You have to have complete relaxation in order to straighten the dog's hind legs like a rabbit.
Knowing that 2 bitches I bred went there, I found one had a bad reaction to the ACP given. I am not at all sure I would go that route.
Pierre Willems I know is wary of anything else than complete anesthetic.
Saying this I have had a previous vet who sedated only but I would need complete trust in the vet.
I have found many do not regularly hip score and I would want the most experienced and best vet in the practice. I now have a dilemna as my own vet has left- I am now on a hunt for someone whom I will trust and does not treat breeders as the bad guys
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Why I wonder?