The Brittany Forum

doganjo · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject:

Part of the problem is that anaesthetics have reversal drugs whilst sedation doesn't. If anything goes wrong they can bring the dog round quickly but not with sedation.
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Annie

Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away

Mugi · Bretonnier Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 1304

Both sedation and full anaesthesia can be reversed and I personally prefer sedation as the dog has a much quicker 'recovery'. As we all do I prefer a vet who is experienced in the techniques and thoroughly understands what will be required by the BVA panel and I am lucky that my regular vet is a vet who does a lot of scoring in this area using sedation. When he went through Chase's x-ray with me he was pretty accurate in how he was finally scored, erring on the side of caution as opposed to optimism Laughing

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I am not sure which sedation drug was used but I know ACP is not used in 'my' practice as it isn't well tolerated by many dogs.

Patricia - woud recommend Chase's vet but as it is pretty near Malvern showground that is not really practical for you Wink

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Gill, I know many people who use the service you mention and I have heard nothing but good of her .......... although I believe actually making the appointment can be a problem Wink

, once made I don't know anyone who has said a bad word about the service and if I didn't have a vet in walking distance who I trust to do the job I know I would head in her direction.
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Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.

Never forgetting Mugi and Freddy

Wyngold · Bretonnier Joined: 14 May 2007 Posts: 131

Patricia and others: ACP or commonly known as Acepromazine is a tranquilizer. It is a tranquilizer that is not recommended for use in breeds of dogs that may have the Mdr1 gene that makes them reactive to things like Ivermectine, etc. ACE (american call name) is also known to be a drug that can induce seizures in animals with a family background of such, and in sight hounds has been known to delay recovery with slow excretion by the liver. It basically lowers the threshold for inducing seizures.

Because I have a Veterinary background I inquire as to the anesthetic protocols should my dog need to be put under for dentistry or surgery.
Many Vets use a pre-anesthetic cocktail of ACE/Atropine mainly because ACE is of the family of drugs like Compazine slows the brain respose to regurgitate/prevent nausea. They use this cocktail because they do not trust pet owners to "Fast" their dogs prior to a proceedure and makes aspiration from regurgitation a concern for the patient. ACE is not reversable and if a dog is rather "fat" can be stored in the fatty tissue for slow recovery. This drug is often used in earcropping proceedures because it allows for a slow wake up in the pup and to prevent head banging trauma after proceedure. This drug accounts for many cases of anesthetic reactions resulting in death or failure to wake up when not used or monitored properly. It prolongs the effect of sedation even when using reversable agents.
There are many newer chemical restraint agents available that do have antagonist to reverse effects. The "old" one was Innovar now there is a milky looking one called Popanolol. Both safe and often used in c-sections because its effects can be controlled in the newborns to some degree as well as using Dopram to stimulate respiration.
I have not been an active Veterinary technician in quite a few years but I do value my dogs and so try to keep up with anesthetic advances and want to avoid any catastrophy if I can.

ACE is often prescribed for fearful dogs, for dogs that are thunder shy, etc. But a key question for its use has always been family history of seizures...if there are then usually Valium is prescribed instead.
Now with the discovery of why some dogs react to ACE and the Mdr1 genes associated with this reaction many Vets will not even use this product especially in mixed breed dogs where breeds might be unknown or hard to predict as a gene carrier.

It is really tempting to write on here but I do have so much to do and so little time to get it done so bye again for now.
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Goldie Coats
Wyngold Britanys
Bend, OREGON, USA

doganjo · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject:

We appreciate your knowledge, though, Goldie, so don't disappear altogether.
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Annie

Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away

highclare · Bretonnier Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 162 Location: Essex

Its strange that you say you need to have a complete anisthetic to get the legs back like a rabbit.
The new thing is not to put the dog compelely out then the dog gives a little resistence to having its legs pulled out so keeping the joint more natural, instead of the vet pulling the hip joints slightly apart giving a false score.
They have been doing that in Sweden for 5 years and all scores have improved, in fact the breeders have been hip scoring there dogs by law for 20 years and it has been found that the hip scores have had NO significant improvement at all. That is not a reason to use bad hips if the animal is not worth breeding from anyway.

Gill and the Mabeleen