Well thats a bit like the Show Gundog Working Certificate so it could be useful. But at the end of the day if a dog is going to work should it not be asked to do more than one test that lasts about 10 minutes at the outside
Work surely means being capable of doing a days work consistently not just ten minutes and then never again _________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
The longest hunt I was ever given in a trial was about 25 minutes . This was on a grouse moor and as the judge told me later he'd wanted to see if a brittany could really run hard for that length of time up and down a steep heather covered slope.
It doesn't sound very much but that is a long run when done at full pelt on a hillside. Heather isn't kind to small dogs.
Much as I'd like to see a hunt for every dog on an assessment day that lasted 20 - 30 minutes it just would not be practical . The day would not be long enough for more than a few dogs to be assessed.
One of my pet hates are the dogs who "waste" ground. In trials it is fairly common to see a dog that just wombles about hardly covering any ground. Personally I prefer a dog that is just a tinge out of control and is running its socks off to a gundog version of a Womble ! These Wombles all too often seem to get good ground to run and they make nothing of it. The dog wombles its way across the land , the handler, judges , steward etc. etc. all walk across the area too and god knows what game is walked right past !
There used to be a couple of HPR judges going around whos solution to this I completely agreed with . They gave the dog about 3 minutes worth of wombling then told the handler to call it up and very politely said goodbye to them ! I.M.O. if I were judging a trial and while watching a dog I had time to yawn and scratch my bum then that dog would not win. The fact that it may have pointed would not matter ..........the dog was bred to point ! If a lab retrieves I don't think it's blooming marvellous ...the same applies to pointing.
I look forward to seeing what develops from this discussion . The brittany breed has surely wombled on long enough depending for its reputation as a gundog on what happens elsewhere in the world.
The breed needs to move on in this country.
Bill T. _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of Brittany's in Australia are used for hunting. The Blub Breton Partridge hunt I attended was certainly well attended given the "rarity" of the breed in this country. As I previously mentioned breeder choice over here is limited, but of the breeders I spoke to when researching the breed and looking for a pup often the first question asked was "do you intend to hunt with her"? At some points it almost felt like if I had said NO, I would have struggled to get a pup!
My Annie hasn't seen a lot of varied game or bird work but as for work ethic when stalking deer she will go for 6-8 hours in quite rough/scrubby Alpine type terrain, she is keen to get back in the ute but she wont stop till we do. It appears that our (Aus) situation may be quite different to what you have in the UK???
I guess the question of what constitutes work depends on the handler, if the dog performs the duties asked and is in the field assisting/working with the handler they are working in my view. My girl would probably fail many of the tests you mentioned because that's not the type of "hunting" I do. Seeing her performance on the Partridge though (a bird she had never seen before) given the opportunity she would no doubt pick it up quickly as she did with the Partridge.
I do agree the breed belongs in the field, Annie's temperment/behaviour changed after her first hunt (12 months old), I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but she seemed to mature at that point. It was as if a light had been switched on and she knew her purpose. Buying a "gundog" breed and not working it (either trials or field) is a bit akin to buying a gun and not going shooting!
Probably should add that I fully support the notion that only the best/tested proven stock should be used as breeders, as a first time gundog owner someone like I need everything possible in our favour, an un-savoury experience first up could discourage someone for life.
Cheers,
Waldo
Could I ask how many people who think that working or trialling is the real purpose of gundog breeds, have gone out of their way to encourage non hunting people to get interested in those activities?
Edit
Sorry. I should have said that I meant on a mass rather than individual basis. _________________ If a job's worth doing, it's worth paying somebody else to do it properly
not sure of the question Eddie - I don't think any have said trialling is the purpose - just the only method available for truly testing at the moment.
As to 'hunting' being the definition of 'working' - maybe you have a point - for that use it is redundant now meat has a sell by date and a label.
All the HPR breed clubs arrange 'training days' - but you have to know or want to 'train' our dog. Perhaps there should be a ' demo day with a have a chance to have a go' So new people can come along and have what is going on explained to them. _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
I think a demo day is such a good idea I will make this offer -
I will take two people as guests with me when when I go 'picking up'. Bring yourselves and a dog and lunch. I will explain what goes on and where and why and you will have an opportunity to see dogs 'picking up' and have a go if a suitable occasion arises - and if not one will be set up for you. You will have a go at taking the dog in the beating line.
The day will be near Uppark in West Sussex. Arrival time 8.30 finish about 3.30. The shoot is on a Saturday and i will be there save when I manage to get a FT entry. _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
Last edited by guy on Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total
just read a reply by a WSS owner on his friend's Facebook post and referring to brittanys
"Oh gawd !
( having said that I used to shoot over one years ago on walked up shoots and it was brilliant ! )" _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
Good question Eddie...As we are lucky to have plenty of land, we have over the years, offered for novice people the chance to have a go at working the dogs. Through informal training days. Mick for one has often come down here. The last training session was with Angie Lewis, more advanced but still informal and very informative. We learnt heaps. Even if you are too worried by such a day, you can come, watch and go later to Southwold!!!
I bought my first Brittany from Stan Smith who would not sell to non working people at the time. I did obedience with my bitch and Alan took her to our local shoot. I was never interested in trialing as it terrified me. But I was lucky in that John and Eunice came down here and their passion was infectious. And we had fun Having bought top working bloodlines from France, I could hardly leave them at home. So we had a go at Spring Pointing and I was lucky to be in front of Maureen Nixon who was very kind and helpful.
I think the more involved you become in the breed, the more you want to see what they can do! And the goal gets higher( look at our dual Ch, the way she is bred, and her breeder who started with 2 non trialing dogs)
We all have to start somewhere- and we must not forget that- it is scary, not easy but so rewarding when something clicks in position.
However, the dog must be obedient in order to do the minimum.
If you want to see your dog's ability, you are not far from Rory's? He is not scary and will start you off, but of course, the idea of putting a dog through it paces can be daunting. The first time I had a lesson with him, I felt sick
The reason for posing the question is that I am reminded of when I was looking for somewhere for my son to get help to learn about angling. I couldn't find any club which offered that kind of help. It seemed that the sole purpose of the various clubs was to organise matches. I did find many posts on angling forums, complaining that not many people were taking up angling as a hobby.
My local birding club, on the other hand, has at least one open day a year and puts out posters encouraging people to come and spend a few hours to find out what is going on in the world around them. They have quite a few new members and their field trips and talks are usually well attended.
There are probably many people who own dogs of gundog breeds who would attend an activity day organised by their local gundog club.
It could be a way of raising funds and awareness of what their dogs are meant to do.
It might get more people onside if the subject of hunting bans were ever raised as well. _________________ If a job's worth doing, it's worth paying somebody else to do it properly
Sorry Guy. I should have put a little more thought into my wording, but hey! what's new?
Patricia. I have often looked enviously at the website of the Norfolk and Suffolk HPR field trial club. It looks like what I'm looking for over here.
Maybe I should join a local club and bludgeon them into doing the same.
_________________ If a job's worth doing, it's worth paying somebody else to do it properly
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Having bought top working bloodlines from France, I could hardly leave them at home. So we had a go at Spring Pointing and I was lucky to be in front of Maureen Nixon who was very kind and helpful.
