As a judge I do not see shows as a 'beauty contest' ...it is an evaluation of the animal against the breed standard where conformation, breed definition, correlation of the parts are assessed for compliance. If I have said it once, I will say it a hundred times...a working dog should be breed standard compliant and an exhibited dog should be a working dog...all in one package. Only by our deliberate and stringent endorsement of both can we maintain the breed as it is. Any deviation and the qualities which make the breed the breed will be demeaned. _________________ "...amitie, respect mutuel et amour..."
a working dog should be breed standard compliant and an exhibited dog should be a working dog
So please explain, how do you know if a dog being shown is capable of working, let alone actually doing any work? _________________ My goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog already thinks I am.
As the owner slash breeder of a 'working' breed wouldn't you want to avail your dog to both show and work opportunities, to prove that he/she can achieve in both codes? I appreciate that many may not be able to do so but I would go to the edge of hell to prove mine because the Breton is a hunting dog who, in my opinion, should also be breed standard compliant. _________________ "...amitie, respect mutuel et amour..."
I certainly wouldn't disagree with you, Victoria. I just wonder how, as a judge you would be able to tell whether or not a dog was one that worked , rather than one that was bred and used just for the show ring.
I'm particularly interested as my dog has been accused of being underweight when shown during the shooting season and thus in working trim. _________________ My goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog already thinks I am.
I agree with Victoria that showing stock is the evaluation of conformity to standard. The dog should be well muscled and not overweight and flabby.
But because it is a show, the dog must not be thin either !
So, during the working season, have the dog in working order and fatten up in the show season! !! A couple ok kgs and sorted!
We are looking for a Cob, and this type of horse is well rounded and powerful.
As for recognising a show dog or a working dog in show condition you can't.
The only thing( as was mentionned once in Dog World) would be to not have any SH CH's at all, just dogs who have an award in the field too and only then CH's.
Can you imagine how well that would go down ??!!!
_________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
The only thing( as was mentionned once in Dog World) would be to not have any SH CH's at all, just dogs who have an award in the field too and only then CH's.
Can you imagine how well that would go down ??!!!
I would love to see that ! The Brit classes in the show ring wouldn't take long to judge that's for sure !
It won't happen , the breed is far too full of show only people or with people who give lip service only to the work the dogs are meant for. I agreed with the earlier post that asked how a dogs value as a worker was determined by seeing it walk around a show ring. Shows do NOT show the best working dogs , a show can only show what a dog LOOKS like - show looks and show wins do not make a worker. If they did then the show bred Irish Setters for example would beat the very different looking work bred Irish Setters out working - the showbred dogs cannot live with the work breds up on the grouse moors. They are wrongly bred.
Too many show generations have gone untested in the field by show owners who have the cheek to tell working folk what a working dog should look like. That's Irish Setters but don't fool yourselves ,Brits could go the same way unless the generations are tested and seen to be tested in the field as well as at shows.
The Plum. _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
"Brits could go the same way unless the generations are tested and seen to be tested in the field as well as at shows. "
Well there I agree...
Plum, if you were to go to France you would see the working classes nearly as full as the Open classes ( certainly the Orange class) at the French Nationale. Those dogs have awards in the field. More often than that, the winner of the show or the CAC is a working dog.
Some people complain they are too fat. Some say they are too thin. I don't see it as a problem. When the season is finished, and whenever you want ( if you want) to show, put the food up. It does not take long for a Brit to put on condition.
Not everyone wants to do competitions, but a minimum standard is required, certainly in France.
As for dividing breeds, the British are well known for it.
Hope I don't get to see the day.
My last post was unfair to the brittany breed for it singled it out .
I am unaware of any gundog breed in this country that would have a lot of show ring exhibitors if those dogs had to have a working qualification of any worth before entering a show ring.
I am regularly saddened when I see the things that parade around show rings calling themselves gundogs !
On the subject of fat showdogs I feel the show judges need to be educated. There is a difference between showring fit and work fit. I.M.O. a supposedly working breed should not be penalised for being work fit.
My previous Brit worked all year round. Shoots etc. from the 12th August till seasons end then rabbit clearance and pigeon decoying, occasional days out with hawks then spring grouse counts , more rabbit clearance, more pigeon shooting , more grouse counting then more grouse shooting work. She worked all year long - she even went wildfowling and brought back Greylag geese. At no time did she carry extra weight. Its probably a damn good job I never showed her for if I'd found out a judge had put her out of his ring for not carrying weight I'd have left him without an ounce of credit to his name. A dog at its' proper working weight and level of fitness should not be penalised in the ring - it is entered as a gundog isn't it ? Take a good look at the other gundog breeds in the other rings. Are they fat or are they just show fit ??? Do you want the Brit to go the same way as so many of the other breeds ?
The Plum. _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
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