I know we all like a good argument/discussion/whatever we want to call it..........
but surely it is better to be encouraging new blood to take an interest in working their dogs or finding out what they are capable of etc etc, even if they are not getting to the highest levels??
At the moment I am at the very bottom of the pile in terms of working my dogs but I would like to think I can learn, even if I don't do justice to this dog surely it is better that I try as opposed to not? If people belittle my efforts and possibly minor achievements it is hardly likely I will want to keep putting my head above the parapet.
So at the end of the day, I don't want false praise, special favours cos I am new but I would like to be given a fair opportunity to learn.
When I had my weim all I met (before she was ill) was opposition to trying to learn to work with her (because she was a weim) and ultimately that put me off. I am new to showing too and some people are more encouraging than others but there is an element in both working and showing camps who seem to be 'closed shop' and to me as someone new to all this is just seems sad.
If we are to keep dogs doing what they were bred for and with decent conformation to allow both show success and working ability shouldn't 'we' try to work together - or the other way round cos I am not saying show or working is more important ? Perhaps I am naive but in many ways this seems to epitomise why we have a Hunting Ban, Docking Ban etc etc we have too many agendas and not enough points of contact where we can work together to better our dogs. _________________ Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.
This is for Jan and Sue. Sue your post was spot on and you do know a welsh springer and all of there naughty little things they get up to.
Jan I have a The Mabeleem now and want to learn from people who have trained and trialed Brits. Yes I could show a few tips to people but it is I who want to learn the HPR ways and the Plum has a big mouth so why can we not learn for him Scotland or not.
We go to Scotland to show, people will go anywhere for there sport.
If people are going to start throwing personal insults around maybe now is the time to close this discussion. _________________ My goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog already thinks I am.
I agree Sue , beginners should be encouraged. That is why I have taken Gundog training classes for more than 30 years. That is why I have judged tests even although they are not for me and that is why as a "learner " H.P.R. judge I got a row from the senior "A" panel judge for trying to put semi -terrified novice handlers at their ease during a trial. The A panel judge felt I was being too helpful and that I should just let them get on with it.
I disagreed with him then and I still believe beginners should be made to feel welcome and at ease. With two separate training clubs now I have done my best to ensure no little "cliques" arise. Beginners are always welcome in any conversation.
This is not a training day it is a discussion forum . While I may disagree with the writings of others , I think they should be allowed to write it. Other forum members will turn to another subject if they get bored.
To back up my claim to trying to help beginners there are dozens, perhaps a couple of hundred gundog handlers. Some of those handlers and I had strong disagreements at first meeting. A few of those handlers are now very good friends of mine , some have won trials, one or two are now judges.
I retired as a trainer of gundog classes earlier this year. After well over 30 years of trying to help others train gundogs, I rather feel I have done my bit and will watch with interest as others now help or don't help as suits their abilities and their natures.
The Plum _________________ The dogs nose is better than yours, let it use it!
I totally agree with you in wanting to ease people's fear when starting up. Some feel sick, some shake, it would be cocky to say otherwise! My first experience was being told off after running in a spring pointing test. As my dog pointed birds and I was told " Thank you" I made the mistake to go back to the gallery on " fresh ground" I was told off in no uncertain terms by a" big" judge. Needless to say, I felt really embarrassed( not knowing any different) and I am not sure I want to run under that judge. I have not forgotten.
But then, I have met some smashing judges who make you feel at ease and are kind like Fred Alcock.
You make mistakes ..and sure learn fast from them!
The pleasure from seeing a dog doing what you have asked him to do is unreal. Nothing beats that. It is that partneship which becomes special...
Gill, Bill may or may not have a big mouth.....what he definately has got is the ability to train a HPR or other gundog breed to a very high standard to the extent, in fact, that it is capable of competing and winning in trials. _________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
think that still applies Jan - a second sale will negate any breeder imposed endorsements
Nope - quite wrong. Belle was endorsed, and when I got her I asked the KC whether Joanne needed to have it lifted before breeding and they categorically told me that only the breeder can lift the endorsement and that pups will NOT be registered even if that bitch or dog is sold on. If anyone sees a litter registered from a dog they know is endorsed they shoulf inform them - they want to know as that emans their ssytem is faulty. In our case Belle was actually transferred twice and the ban was still in place - she was transferred back to Joanne and Joy and then to me. I enquired anonymously and was told exactly the same answer but two differnt girls at the KC
Annie
This is correct Anne
I also contacted the KC on this matter and was told if the Breeder puts restrictions on then they are on for life or until the breeder lifts them even if they change hands more than once, of course they can be bred and not registered but as some breeders IMO only breed a litter to make money I doubt many would resort to this. Not that any of us give our pups away, but you know what I mean
Also Bill I was not being in any way disrespectful i didn't realise you lived in Scotland, and I was genuinely suggesting That you come and help with training at the weekend.
I know people have their opinions and get set in their ways and in their beliefs.
my late farther trained and owned racing greyhounds all his life and his opinions, ways and beliefs were set in concrete.
/quote]Knowledge is a wonderful thing and something we should never tire of
I have to agree with Jan. I've never met Bill but just reading his postings on this and other forums has taught me, as someone new to HPRs, more than I could have hoped for (and all for free)
_________________ My goal in life is to be as good a person as my dog already thinks I am.
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? Perhaps I am naive but in many ways this seems to epitomise why we have a Hunting Ban, Docking Ban etc etc we have too many agendas and not enough points of contact where we can work together to better our dogs.
