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basics
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Joanne
Bretonnier


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 18


Location: Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't use a check chain, they will only damage the throat.  Unfortunately in my experience all Brittanys pull.  They want to be the first there!!!

I have a variety on control aids, haltis, Dogmatic halter (which is the best as it very soft and fits much better than the others) harness that tighten under the legs when they pull) etc.  However I walk 4 or 5 at a time and therefore there is always a competition.  They are all very good on the way back though.

If I am walking just one then walking without pulling can be done.  Please go to a class.  Find a roll on roll off one, I always think they are better then you are not paying for a course when you might miss some weeks and find a trainer you can get on with.  Go without the dog first and get a feel for how they teach and whether you like them.  Brittanys test us all but they are worth it.

You MUST be persistent and consistent.  If they get away with it once you have to go back to the beginning again.  As said in other posts, make them wait when the door opens, you go through first and then they come to you.  No barging and leaping around allowed.  Train the sit in every place and with every distraction.  1 year old is a very strange time for a dog, the hormones are really kicking in and they are in full teenage years.  I always say that dogs who have known all the commands up to this age, now go deaf anywhere up to 15 months and should be put back on a lead and monitored closely so they do not get away with anything until they have calmed down again.

However, calm for a Brittany is not the same calm as for a Labrador.  I do not know where you are but please try to find someone with a Brittany that you meet or come to our training day in October.  You will meet others that can help.

Joanne
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Waldo
Bretonnier


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 144


Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to the basics, I've learnt a very important lesson the last few weeks. As many would be aware my Annie has had her fair share of health issues and a couple of weeks ago we went out hunting and her skin condition looked quite bad and the vet wasn't overly positive. I'd made the decision if she was moving around OK in the morning she would come with us, after all what is the worst thing that could happen 9I was starting to think her career was almost over). Anyway,  she worked OK then late in the day we entered soem new ground that was more open and held a good number of rabbits so I let her run and play. The following week or so the wheather was quite wet (at last) and we didn't do much training. We went hunting last weekend and she was a total ratbag and spent most of the day on a lead attached to my belt, she has also been barking more than usual in the yard. The three day's since the "ratbag" went hunting I've had her out for about an hour each day and not given her an inch of freedom, she has responded beautifully and even cut down the barking in the yard. Give them an inch and they will take the proverbial mile, but in the end they really want to be controlled and I think the basics is what makes everything else possible.
Cheers,
Waldo
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annemcc



Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks for all your advice, I'll give it a go. I am based in the Glasgow area. Do you know of any classes with Brittany experience in this area?

Thanks,
Anne
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doganjo
Bretonnier


Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 1844


Location: scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Anne
One of my pups is in Clarkston but my geography is rubbish so I can't remember if that's close to you or not.  I'll put you in touch with Alison so you can ask where they go, as Bonnie is coming along quite well.  Does your own vet not have classes or know of some nearby?  Tell Thomas not to let him off free till you have the lead walking sorted.  He has to do heel work as well as you.  I'm happy to chat to you any time - just call.  I told you that when I gave you Patricia's name for a pup when I didn't have enough to let you have one!
If it's any consolation I'm just getting Allez to walk to heel now - and he's 3!
Annie
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Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
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Patricia
Bretonnier


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 1217


Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just clicked....Sorry to hear about how naughty Beano is Confused  I have seen all the rest of the litter and most are coming on really well with only one sister being naughty due to handler being too soft Wink : the owner will know who I am talking about Wink
Give me a ring any time if you are worried. Beano' other sister Djinnie is very trainable. Dougal-brother- is very excitable but you need a firm hand especially at this age!
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Patricia
Bretonnier


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 1217


Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been sent this link by the lady who owns Lorca X Taz's daughter Nenette. She worked for Roger Mugford. Check her link if it helps?

Otherwise ring her and explain you have a Breton too, she is...French!
http://www.surreydogtraining.co.uk/about-pauline-gloyens.html
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annemcc



Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

We've been to lots of classes(v stressful) and had several one to ones ! I blame the owners  Laughing.  He is good for about 10 steps then a leaf blows in front of him and I just about lose an arm. When other dogs are about it is impossible.

Thanks for the link Patricia - I'll have a look.

If you could send me that info Annie that would be great - it would be great to see another Brittany of similar age to gauge if we are expecting too much/too little and to figure out what we are doing wrong.

I am hopeful though because he is so good in the house. He does not go upstairs, on the couch unless invited etc. I am convinced the ability is there - we're just not teaching it correctly!

Thanks again,
Anne
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Patricia
Bretonnier


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 1217


Location: Suffolk

PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anne, please contact Pauline, her English is great and her enthousiasm infectious. She actually changed her job because I would have taken notice of someone who works with MR Mugford. He is very well known.
It appears many people have a problem with Brits pulling on the lead though I personally don't have that issue but I am very firm with the dogs...and unlike Joanne I still use check chains which for me work very well. I know it is not PC Rolling Eyes  but I don't care!
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Wyngold
Bretonnier


Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 131



PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess after 30+ years in dogs I have never damaged a throat using a check chain, prong collar, or ecollar.  Each has it use....
Even a head collar can cause damage in the worng hands no matter who manufactures them!

What one needs to learn is how to use the proper training tools for the situation at hand.

A side note there are dogs out there who will cough and gag and act like they are being choked with little or no pressure applied even to a plain buckle collar.   What you do with these dogs and your response determines whether they will continue to use this behavior to escape compliance, or the behavior fades away because it got no sympathy response from you.  It is like the first time you place a collar on a puppy it will spend days scratching at it, maybe even refusing to eat or drink in some more dominant pups.

I do not have pulling problems on dogs that I seriously work with.
I do have a few "soft" dogs who I do not correct at all the first few months and loet them be a bit willful and then apply pressure in training later.  As they say you cannot use cookie cutter methods for every person or dog to teach.  Knowing the individual dog is a must.

One catch phrase I noted in the posts "Bolt after a leaf that blows by"   what this tells me about this particular dog is that it has a high chase drive...dogs like this have to be worked at "fast pace" not a leisurely walk.  The faster you walk  & the more sudden and quick unannounced turns such as rights and abouts will get the dog to focus on you since it is harder to predict which way you are going.  Another trick is to litterally keep annoying the dog walk into its body, trip on his legs when you trun left, then suddenly spin about face.  If you are quick and random in your direction a dog who is chase drive motivated will catch your movement and eventually will totally focus on you.  He will think "by gosh this one is strange I cannot tell if we are going in this direction or that....she keeps bumping into me! I better watch this one and be prepared!"
Did your instructor ever tell you what the turns are used for????
Right turns for lack of attention and going wide; About turns for dog moving infront of your body line...pulling; Left for dogs that cling/crowd or touch you so they do not have to use their eyes to watch you.  Some dogs like to sit at heel and lean on your leg so they can look around and they will know when they need to get up as you shift your weight to move.
Dogs are very motion and body signal aware.

Another exercise for this kind of dog is focused attention training, and long sits for examinations to teach settling.  Sit at side and have distraction very far away and over a period of time they move closer.
Have many dogs and people walk circles around the sitting dog and handler.

If the person doing the training is physically incapable of applying the correction with enough force to be effected using a training tool to assist is probably necessary.  Example I have trained owners with obnoxious 90pound dog and the owner is a 5 ft 120pounder.  Sometimes the right tool such as a prong collar is needed. When fitted correctly and of the correct weight (not overly heavy), all it takes to "remind" the dog is a slight flex of the wrist.
There is no trauma to throat, no heavy jerking sideways or rearwards...it is all about learning the proper use of the tools necessary.

Reward for a high chase dog is probably ball or throw toys as motivators when channeled in this direction.  When such a dog is distracted and lunges....call its name when it looks at you throw the toy for him...eventually you teach the dog that your calling it can be rewarding.
Toy that allow you to stuff with treats are good ones to teach with and transfer to balls and wean the food off.
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Wyngold Britanys
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Mugi
Bretonnier


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 1304



PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the tips you have been given (Chase will walk well on a loose lead mostly but I have to concentrate on him as give and inch and .................................. Wink ) one of the best things I was 'taught' was to use a harness for control when you want to get from A to B quickly and only ever use your collar and lead, be it a flat collar or slip lead, when you are prepared to use the 'heel' command and reinforce it through the whole walk.

Chase knows 'heel' as opposed to 'sniffs' now - the one means behave properly, the other means you can potter about at the end of the lead WITHOUT pulling. Yes we have days when it all goes to pot and certain stimuli will set him into pulling. I just stand rock solid until he remembers his manners.

Be consistent and it is possible to have even a high prey drive dog walking ok on a lead, Chase is 28 months old and I am guessing a half brother to your pup? He has been doing particularly well heelwork wise since he hit 2 - prior to that he was a maniac on springs Rolling Eyes  Shocked  Laughing .



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Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.

Never forgetting Mugi and Freddy

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