when in I was in Germany recently I saw them withhold breeding rights on an animal that had part of one incisor in the wrong place. _________________ Guy, Ellie, Topaz, Catja and in memory Barley
Beauty from Structure
www.epagneulbreton.org.uk
Unless a dog was seriously undershot, that may affect its job in picking up birds
Oh please don't say there is tolerance for incorrect/differing from ideal bite?????
Sad to say....there IS. What it goes down to is interpretation of the written word. How tight is a correct scissors bite, is the bite correct if the upper teeth point slightly outward yet it remains in contact with lower teeth? Is it not a correct bit if the teeth are vertical and flus agains the lower teeth? Should they just slip loosley over the lower? Lots of grey areas allow in most standards so that a range of specemins can be kept and used if needed.
As to the Questions originally asked....
If I folowed the FCI standard with the new penalties set in place.
The So called Sable dog is already eliminated before we even examin the dogs hands on, just like any dog that gets measured out of the class upon entry into the ring. No question of choice there....
Now under other countries whose standards do not have a directive to judges regarding color elimination....Then it comes down to a judges "judgement". So if I had 2 dogs with acceptable color...1 long body with excellent head, moved well seemed sound, and one with perfect body but was out at elbows and a bit bowed in rear, and also had a nice head. I would probably go with the longer bodied dog for soundness reasons.....this is probably what American dogs in many case drift a bit towards longer bodies.
From a genetic breeding stand point...I know that long loins are hard to remove, and narrow back skulls hard to improve, and so I would look at the long dog to determine "how" it was long. Was it short enough in loin, but long in rib span? Or was it shallow in chest length and long in loin? For me I would accept the former and discard the later.
This is where "breeder" judges often get trapped in their officiating capacities. But having a breeder judge or "specialist" is beneficial to a breed in many cases.
JMHO
As for Germany what I have notice is total intollerance for anything having to do with the BITE. Is this because many Ger. breeds have been bred and tested for bitting in their working performances? ie Ger. Shepherd, Dobermans, Weims in the fur "kill", etc. _________________ Goldie Coats
Wyngold Britanys
Bend, OREGON, USA
[quote="Patricia"]As far as I am aware, having a long back, flat feet, no rib etc...would not affect the ability to work? look at some Springers who are low to ground with sometimes bowed legs...
But a dog of the 'wrong' colour can still work as well as a dog of the right colour.....and sometimes better _________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
It is true there were some awful specimens at the Nationale as well as some really good ones.
Colour wise, some nearly " all Black" as well as some nearly mostly white have less appeal. As with the White often comes white on ear, eye within the white blaze, and all this is very unappealing bordering ugly. but all those ugly dogs still work and no doubt well. At the end of the day, the Standard is the blue print of the breed.
I was amused to hear one judge stating the quality today was higher than some years ago and also nicely surprised our Brittanys did not look like" goats"
I still like the very short coupled Breton with long legs, remembering some Du Sulon and St Thurial of older days.
I noticed that last year the measurements for bitches was about 49 to 50 cms. And this is good for brood bitches as they are the base material.
This year, it looked as if the judge liked a slightly smaller animal??? Comments??
Also many comments on critiques about zygomatic arches...The narrower heads seem to have none of these but a narrow skull appeared in many heads. It is difficult to be everywhere in all the rings as I often miss the Orange classes usually being in AOC class myself.
I left my bitch at home due to her lack of underneath hair having been shaved off. I needn't have worried
Like here, you have to pick the judge who suits your type of dog best.
As far as I am aware, having a long back, flat feet, no rib etc...would not affect the ability to work? look at some Springers who are low to ground with sometimes bowed legs...
But a dog of the 'wrong' colour can still work as well as a dog of the right colour.....and sometimes better
I would disagree about the long backs etc - in other breeds they have different bone structure and conformation and a different way of moving, (striding out and driving from behind) so length of back is part of their make up - but I don't know any of my friends working spaniels that have flat feet. In our terrain they wouldn't get very far. Because of our breed's distinct clipped action of course it shouldn't have a long back. And how long could it work with no heart and lung room or flat feet for that matter. Remember the Brittany should fit in a box! Same height ground to withers as chest to rump bones. A number of dogs at the NE were unplaced for lack of rib cage, and I noticed they were measuring both length and height and comparing them. Certainly in Chris's ring anyway. _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
My point being that if a dog could work with all the above then the colour wouldn't make a blind bit of difference _________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
Still disagree I have had longish backed Brittanys- obviously not shown!- who worked better than my short backed ones! Admittedly they don't move the same but can work as well. And flatish feet too...No problems either!!!
As for the Nationale, many were very very very fat. As for measuring the lenght and height, I thought that lady with Christian to be a bit rough. And it is obvious without need to measure both
I for sure, will not show under her when she becomes a judge
Wouldn't know - don't think I've ever bred a long backed flat sided dog - not even my Cockers lol Certainly wouldn't want to keep one. But then I haven't bred much anyway.
I thought it was Christian who measured Chase, because the girl couldn't get him to stand still. He is quite firm with them though. _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
Was the assistant Sylvie Desserne???? or SOmeone else?
A dog can be rather unsound, long in back, out at elbows and still work if it has "heart". It is amaizing how many out of standard dogs appear in trials accross the US and they live to a ripe old age, albeit with some arthritis when they hit 9 or 10 in their pasterns, and hocks.
While for me if it is not sound they get placed as "pets" and not pushed at a "hunter" or someone who will worke heavily. Some end up hunting yes but not to the degree that a competition dog is drilled and roaded for conditioning.
But lots of dogs in the show ring get finished with bad hips, etc. One of those traits a judge cannot see with laying on of the hands. But they are still unsound!
So yes unsound dogs do and can hunt, it depends on the owner and how they keep the dog in condition, moderate weight, etc. _________________ Goldie Coats
Wyngold Britanys
Bend, OREGON, USA
Don't know Goldie...Jean Marc Binet told me she was the President of the French Spaniel club. I really did not care for her manners As for Chase, he became upset in the manner he was measured beforehand. I have measured him myself and did not come to the same result
Nor did another judge...
As for breeding or having longer back than wished for Brittanys, not everything I bred is top notch( not through lack of trying though ), only a handful are of " top" quality in a litter. And believe it or not, all my best dogs are descended from an unshown bitch who was however sound but not of showing quality. What was behind her however, was excellent.
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As for Chase, he became upset in the manner he was measured beforehand. I have measured him myself and did not come to the same result 
), only a handful are of " top" quality in a litter. And believe it or not, all my best dogs are descended from an unshown bitch who was however sound but not of showing quality. What was behind her however, was excellent.