Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: Export
I know some breeders read or write on the Forum and wondered what are their experience of exporting, good or bad, which are the countries they have had positive experience from, or negative come to that???
I received this email yesterday and like Anne, did not realise one of my bitches had been sold on. This bitch has already had 2 or 3 litters to date. Being in the US, and not knowing she was sold, it would be difficult to buy her back
This is what it said...
We will breed Victoria 2-3 more times depending on her health and her ability to mother puppies, my veterinarian does a through health examination on all of our dogs male or female before they reproduce.
Victoria will stay in our care as long as we can keep her, but .....
she could be homed spayed to another home when older
I know in France a bitch is allowed to have pups at even 10 years of age, and definitely more than 4 litters. What are people's feelings on this? Are we in Britain too sentimental?
Yet, I have exported to Malta and Dubai with success. Great people who cared a great deal .
Of my friends that breed I don't think it makes any difference in some ways how many miles away the pups are (even though it seems that way). Some have exported (or in one case imported to the UK as she lives in Holland) and so far I haven't heard any major problems.
You sell a puppy in good faith to someone you hope values them the same way you do. You could lose track of a dog living 10 miles away if the pup owner doesn't communicate and that dog could be sold on etc etc. A bitch can be bred for profit even if she is endorsed, it just means her pups are unpapered but for some that doesn't matter.
For me a dog is for life (unless the dog really didn't cope in my home and then I would involve the breeder/breed rescue and whoever in the rehoming and I would try to put aside the shame of failure to ensure a good life for the dog).
To me it is not just sentimentality that would ensure I keep a dog for life, they are dependant on us in so many ways and having taken on three rescues/rehomes (yes even Mugi had some problems settling) I would not willingly put a dog through that confusion.
As for how many litters/how old a bitch should be ..... putting aside Club and KC Rules for a moment - surely that to a point depends on the health and well being of the bitch and how much she enjoys motherhood. We don't limit when humans should conceive or how many children they should have (although that isn't a bad thought ) but nature has a way of telling bodies when it is time to quit. A good strong Alpha bitch will keep breeding in a pack throughout her prime, in a pack scenario she doesn't have the advantages a domestic pet in the right home has so from a purely personal perspective certain bitches could probably be bred from later in life without detriment to their health and general wellbeing.
Sorry to hear about your disappointment - she is a lovely looking dog. _________________ Sue, Chase and the non-Brittany boys - Brice & Piper. Pets first and foremost.
Like Patricia I exported to America. I have had a mixed experience. I rarely hear of the bitch, Libby, but have been told that her original owner, Don Poe, who I had met prior to letting him have her, still has her although she is not worked as often as before, and to my knowledge she hasn't been bred from. Her brother seemed less fortunate since his first owner, whom I believed to be perfect having met him in France too, remarried, and his new wife then decided to pass the dog on - I was told it was because he lacked hunt drive. I was a little surprised at that reason since both their parents were avid hunters. After some enquiries I was given the email address of his new owner by a friend and made contact. Since then I have had regular updates on his progress and surprise, surprise - he now goes shooting in season on a regular basis. I believe he sired one litter before they let him go, but they didn't retain any of the pups, nor advised me of the litter. I would now be very reluctant to export, although to be honest I can't see me breeding much now anyway.
I hope you can find out your pup's new owner, Patricia, and be able to receive updates of her. Puppies never leave you - they are always your 'babies' _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
Hi Anne...I have been given Victoria's new owner's name. Here is more on the breeding in that part of the US anyway
"Victoria has had 3 litters . I understand the strict conduct of the Brittany club of G.B. and believe we to should adopt such rules here in the U.S. Unfortunately all breeders in the U.S. are not governed by any authority. If we were to adopt such limitations on all of our females our prices would be above and beyond what consumers are willing to pay. We put tremendous care toward all of our dogs, starting with premium food, supplements, veterinary care/hip certifications, proper vaccinations, flea and tick deterrents, I can honestly say we go above and beyond 99% of the breeders in the United States.
I see nothing different to what we already do! Time to put our prices up hey??? Joke...
No, like Anne, once bitten twice shy, not what I am looking for. At least if the dog is in the UK, you can track it most likely. I still have all addresses of ex puppies owners. Now I tattoo as well-though they are also microchipped before leaving( docking)- but...my number is on the Register should a dog/bitch I bred ends up in a rescue centre or else.
You are not informed of a microchip number if it is in an owner's name or second person.
Should a bitch have 6 litters?? thoughts??? Unless she has 1 or 3 each time...
No, I think 4 litters is maximum, preferably only three. Belle had 7 first time around I've been told, then my 3 last year but if I do breed from her again it will be the last time, even if she only has one or two. I have never had more than one litter from any of my bitches - but then I'm not in a high market area, so perhaps there is reasoning to take more litters in England. My decisions to breed are based on a) if I want another pup for myself and b) if I have a list of a few people wanting pups - I have none at the moment and nobody ever passes any onto me from South of the border, even though I do that myself.
I think the Americans must have a magic wand if they breed to make enough money to cover premium food, supplements, veterinary care/hip certifications, proper vaccinations, flea and tick deterrents. I think I always run at a big loss doing exactly that! _________________ Annie
Handle every situation like a dog, if you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away
I never had more than 3 litters from any of my Cavaliers and they sold like hot cakes......at £600 each in 2002/3 when I bred my last litter.
There were several people that I didn't sell to as I thought they a bit 'funny'. I have only ever had two come back and one was from sickness of the owner, the other was breakup of marriage. Most of them send cards or updates on a regular basis and only one or two bitches were bred from and the owners came back to ask about stud dogs before mating. All were heart and eye tested before having litters. _________________ Jan
Merlin, hips 9/9=18 and Ghillie, hips 8/9=17
Pull [n or v] An equal and opposite force perpetrated on both ends of a lead that results in the inevitable tripping and falling of the human involved!!
Hi all,
As you will all know I have yet to breed that Mabeleen, but I have bred 35 litters in my other breeds of WSS, I/setters and hounds.
I beleive when you breed any bitch the amount of litters a bitch should have should be dictated by how easy it is to find homes for the pups, how popular the breed is and the health of the bitch. I feel 3 is tops and none of my bitches have had more than 3 litters.
As far as exporting, on the whole I have found the experance good. I have exported show dogs and pets. 5 to Sweden, 2 to Finland, 2 Germany, 1 to France, 6 to the US and 1 to OZ.
I try my best to vet each home mostly by asking other people in the breed to find out about the new puppy buyer.
Only one women has let me down by not telling me the truth about how and where her dog would live.
I think it is good to export any breed it helps the gene pools in that breed, as long as all the health points have been covered.
Hi Patricia-
I have been off line for a while and just got back home and going thtough emails. Had one from a freind of mine that an individual wanted to purchase a whole litter of pups from him if he did not want to breed because he did not have good homes lined up. So I went to check out this "breeders" web pages and was surprised to see that they sold Victoria's last litter in January 2009 with some holding their kennel name, and then she appears to be scheduled for another litter this fall so it appears to be back to back.
They had some video of her still not dry in the snow and of her doing some loop de loos in a dead grass field. So I guess they have owned her for the past several months at least.
Now you know how I felt when I learned about these folks placing one of my pups and not having the courtesy to inform me of where she went.
I agree she was in very bad condition when you saw her as she also just came off a litter of pups. She was small and yet that line is the most consistently producing line of sound hips and cobb bodies I have encountered thus far....no loss really just glad that in her case she was spayed and is not being puppy farmed for the next import or "France Shopping trip".
In cases where I have exported dogs it was to owners who specifically were looking for a competition prospect, and were refered to me through other "show" contacts like a judge or breeder that they have dealt with.
I try my darndest to provide what they are seeking be it a competition dog or a working dog and so far all have been great placements. I have more problems with those who seek "pets" or have growing families here in the USA. This is where the dog gets ignored and the family takes up interests for the kids and the dog gets left alone to get behavioral issues and then I get them back....or I get the idiot who thinks that all they need to do for a hunting dog is to start shooting a gun around it and start pressing buttons on a training collar.
What I am seeing in the USA right now is everybody is getting a dog and then they start breeding! Most have to have their mates sitting in their kennel....these are the puppy manufacturers in my mind. Unlike you or I who go out and breed to dogs outside for the lines and "fixes" we need most just put paper to paper and forget the individual dogs and they wonder why they have so many "issues" to deal with. Already we have been studying various dogs and pedigrees and production records to see what is showing any prepotency. Very tough to do but every 5 years or so there seems to be this "natural" drift that has to be compensated for from time to time or even the "french" stock easily drifts to an "American" look. Once one "gets" the lines they are working with time is up in the curve of evolution and drifts kicks back in.
I sell my pups with written contract, but event that is no guarantee you get any resolution. As I tell my buyers that the contracts is what protects them but hardly gives me much in return other than the satisfaction that I produced something that was appreciated (I hope!).
I have gotten to the point in that I breed for "Me" so I do not take advanced reservations until I know what I have and their potential.
Then whe preliminaries are in order I have a good idea as to which pups will be of quality and which ones are more inline to be companion hunters and I focus on placing the companion hunters out so that if necessary I can keep the Competition prospects as long as necessary...it really gives me good way to truely evaluate the quality in the lines. SO many in the USA right now are trying to "get their money back" and are breeding very early before they find out if they have bad hips. Strange but it is the path most are taking. Just like the folks who have Victoria now will breed to their new 1 year old dog as soon as it arrives...no OFA just a France reading which at 1 year of age is worthless as the dog has not yet finished developement.
Sorry about the issues you have had...but I have learned a long time ago not to go with the flow but to question and judge by lots of observation.
I got a good sense early on by words that were said and how they were said and it started getting me and others to think....sad it came to fuition. _________________ Goldie Coats
Wyngold Britanys
Bend, OREGON, USA
One couple of Americans came to France and I aired my feelings with them...I will not export to the US again, it is too far to get a dog back or how do you deal with the 7 month issue??????
I think the gentleman is trying to help Victoria or she will only and just be a puppy machine. That is NOT what I anticipated for this lovely little bitch. And I am gutted. I have had positive experiences with from Malta, Dubai and other places but obviously sold my dogs to the wrong people in the US.
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) but nature has a way of telling bodies when it is time to quit. A good strong Alpha bitch will keep breeding in a pack throughout her prime, in a pack scenario she doesn't have the advantages a domestic pet in the right home has so from a purely personal perspective certain bitches could probably be bred from later in life without detriment to their health and general wellbeing.
